Hello fellow members!
I have a civic 96' hatch with a B18C Integra Type-R with matching LSD. I'm at the point with this engine to either build a B20vtec using the B18C Head or, doing cams and headers to the B18C. It's consuming a bit of oil, like Type-R's do, so I thought the B20 would be a great chance to right all the wrongs. I'd be buying the B20 from TigerJapaense in Toronto, and the ARP studs, and oil kit. Or Stage 3 Cams from skunk2, retainers, and springs.

Please write your thoughts, and comments on the swap ideas, or anything you would change.


-Brian

 

Id go with the b18, because you already have it. If you didnt have anything I'd go with the b20. The b18 is a factory unit, so you know everything is meant to work perfect. The b20 vtec on the other hand, was never built from Honda, so a lot more has to be done to make it reliable. Ive run a b20 vtec before and loved it. Lots of power and torque, but shot peened rods, arp everything, list goes on and on, was done to make it take a beating and not break. To save money I say use what you already have.

 

B18c is already a good platform to built off of. I personally dont think its worth the trouble to built a b20vtec. If you have a b16 then yes.

 

Thanks for the advise. It does seem like a waste of a $5000 dollar engine to be put into a cheap b20 block.

Keep the opinions Coming

-Brian

 

b20 vtech makes but loads of tourqe i had b20with a gsr head and i was nothing but pleased over the gsr motor

 

Would you rather your GSR over your b20?

 

b18
>higher revs, stronger rods,stronger sleeves
<81mm

b20
>84mm bore,89mm crank
<toothpick rods, thin sleeves, low comp

b18 on cams will whoop a stock cam b20 anyday

 

My engine ATM is using a fair bit of oil. There are no puffs of smoke when I start the car, the only time I've noticed it smoke, is when vtec kicks in, and if I shift into vtec... passing/racing. (same thing for this civic jokes )
I was told that it's most likely from where the valve sits, oil can with older engines, get inside and combust... any other areas you my suggest?

Is there something I should/you reccommend change BEFORE cams , valve springs, and retainers?

-Brian?

 

i would have to say that a equally built b20vtec would walk away from a b18c. I have one with probe rods and supertech pistons, stock gsr cams, and i walk away from si's and gsr's.

 

Keep in mind the model of car, 99-00 Si's weight more than hatch's, there about a 15 second car. Just because you beat GSR and Si coupes doesnt mean it was your B20vtec doing it, you could of had the B18C and experienced the same thing..


I would stick with your B18C and get a port/polish as well as new seals for the valves to keep it fresh.

 

i would keep the b18 also. chances are its not your valves. every time i hear of a burning oil its usually not valves, its the valve guides. they get warn out over time. its doing that on my car right now. i changed the rings and it didnt fix it. its your guides. pull your head off. get them changed. get a valve job. get your head pnp'd (by someone who actually knows what they're doing) and slap some cams in there

 

I've head it being the valvu guides... RSX-s has the same problems. I thought the B18C type-r came hand port and polished from the factory, another reason why they were such a beautiful engine. Thanks for the advise!

worth getting P'n'P'd again?
Would you lighten a flywheel before cams or after?


Please remember to vote, and not flame each other. Though onsetofpurity is right about the hatch being so light. And you're racing a slow engine... I 'walk away' from just about everything as it is... I just want to upgrade to a jog.
Race story: 96' Hatch with B18C and LSD > GMC Envoy
(200hp and 140-160 torque Vs. 300 hp and a generous 321 lb.-ft. of torque)
Remember Power to weight ratio

-Brian

 

its just a factory pnp you can gain more cfm. i was just saying since its off i would just have it done by a reputable shop. if its in your budget. if not than its not really a big deal.

 

good call!
Just like GM undercoating... it can always be better lol.

What would you say are the gains when using/getting Port and Polished?

 

it depends on how good of a stock casting you have. and where you bring it too. i couldnt really put my finger on it because i've never been able to flow test a stock type r or one that has been ported again.

 

From All my reading at wikipedia.org Port and Polish is a great idea for anyone doing head work. Thanks b16a95eg for the great advise!
-Brian

 

PnP is quite expensive. I don't think additional PnP is necessary for your build.

I think you would be best off replacing your seats/seals, port matching your head, and spending the rest of the money on some nice cams, a good header, and tuning.

 

I hear a good tuning will do wonders with just about any cam job. The difference is night and day!

Q: On my crank shaft pully, I have the main belt for the altenator, Power steering pully, and A/C pully. I don't have A/C or Power Steering in this car. Is there an under drive pully that is just for the alternator so I may get rid of the exesive turning weight?

Diagram:
| B | | |
-| B | | |
| B | | |

B= Belt, the rest are empty.

-Brian

 

I made 184 whp, on a bone stock 96 ITR motor. Only mods I have are I/H/E and tune.

I started out with 142 whp as my initial first run on the dyno, with a basemap from phearable. At the end of the day, I ended up with 184whp. Hard to believe? Check out my sig. Its in my thread.

Don't ever underestimate a good tune.

In addition, ITR motors do not burn that much more oil than GSR or any other B series motors. If you're burning a lot of oil, I would suggest going over the engine in detail and fixing what needs to be fixed first, before upgrading things. After a full track day, I only burned off 1/4 qt. of oil, and thats hitting 8Krpms the whole day, really pushing the motor/car.

Keep it simple, and the motor will last all day long.

I also don't recommend going with the B20V route. I'm just not a big fan of the frankenstein motors. I've seen too many blow up for my tastes. The only "reliable" B20V motors I've seen are from owners who don't rev their engines to 8K all day long. I say stick with the ITR motor. This motor is probably the only motor from Honda that was designated a "race" motor but found its way for production use. I've talked to other Honda engineers and the ITR motor is basically a GSR motor that was tweaked to its highest potential without sacrificing reliability. I'm a big believer in high reliability. I don't like spending a ton of money on fixing my motor.

 

I'm very surprised that not one person has voted in favour of the B20vtec. Further more in my surprised state, 584 view with 9 votes!? lol Either a good thing is happening, people that don't know aren't voting (awesome!), or some just don't care enough to login and make a comment.
Anyway, thanks everyone that HAS participated in my post, the comments and opinions expressed are very helpful! Thank You all!
-Brian

 

glad I read this post.

Actually i got a b16a and going for B18 or B20, the most important thing is i want my engine to be reliable.

 

I hear that... What good is an engine that doesn't work. Or you need to baby all the time? Glad this post helped!

-Brian

 

i have b18cR in a eg. very happy with it. stock i was able to hit a best time of 14.1@98mph. gonna put some s2s2 cams and hytech headers with test pipe by this summer. easily dip into the 13s and maybe with slicks 12.9 b18c is a great platform!

 

sleeve your B18c and bore it to 85mm!!!!!

 

MY FRIEND HAS A B20/VTEC ON HIS DA AND IT BURNS OIL...IT'S A BAD *** MOTOR BUT THE DOWNSIDE IS THE OIL BURNING