Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year????
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Arlington/ South central LA, Texas/ Cali, USA
Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year????
Hello all, so im at work reading the Road racing / Auto X rules, and faq and a couple of the threads they had listed talked about how expensive it is to race on the weekends. And the two questions that kept running threw my head was, how old is everyone in here and what do you guys do? Not trying to be in you guys' business, but I wanna be in you guys' business lol.
I myself am 19, I have a 4 door integra (90), and an ej2 civic (94), the upside is that I still live at the crib which is in Texas, and I make about 24,960 a year im also a full time student. The civic has a couple of mods and im building it for autox so I can learn to drive. The teg is just chillen for right now....
But any way just wanted to see how much you must make a year to call your self a road racer, and the average age....
I myself am 19, I have a 4 door integra (90), and an ej2 civic (94), the upside is that I still live at the crib which is in Texas, and I make about 24,960 a year im also a full time student. The civic has a couple of mods and im building it for autox so I can learn to drive. The teg is just chillen for right now....
But any way just wanted to see how much you must make a year to call your self a road racer, and the average age....
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: kelowna, BC, canada
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (Chaveli)
40xxx ish a year, 22
i autoX an integra in SM. i can hardly afford the car effort and the mortgage on my appt.
i autoX an integra in SM. i can hardly afford the car effort and the mortgage on my appt.
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From: Santa Cruz, CA
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1684994
buy this book, itll teach you a lot, im enjoying it currently
buy this book, itll teach you a lot, im enjoying it currently
Member
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From: bethlehem, ga, usa
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (Chaveli)
You CAN race on little funds if your careful. At 19 I was traveling the SE with SCCA racing a formula vee, sleeping in tents, eating the dollar menu, and racing on pump gas. When it came time to rebuild an engine or tranny, I would get parts any where I could as long as they were cheap or free.
Now that I'm married and have a baby, I really can't do that anymore. But it sure makes for good times and memories while your single
Now if your wanting to eat at the track, use race gas, and sleep in a real bed, the stakes go up.
Also the more competitive you want to be, the higher the stakes. But if you want to just get out and get some seat time it can be done cheaply.
Now that I'm married and have a baby, I really can't do that anymore. But it sure makes for good times and memories while your single
Now if your wanting to eat at the track, use race gas, and sleep in a real bed, the stakes go up.
Also the more competitive you want to be, the higher the stakes. But if you want to just get out and get some seat time it can be done cheaply.
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From: Hudson Valley, NY, USA
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (Chaveli)
You can autocross on a pretty modest budget. I autocrossed on a shoestring for a long time, thinking that when I finished grad school, I'd become a road racer. Along the way, I lost interest in road racing, and just want to autocross. So I've been done with grad school for a few years, but have never done anything but autocross (and an occassional track day).
So I can't speak to how much it takes to road race, but I think it's fair to assume that it takes a larger budget than showing up in your street car on a Sunday morning and paying 30 bucks
So don't get discouraged if your goal is autocrossing! In grad school I was making like $14k/year, had to pay rent out of that, and was still able to autocross almost every weekend of the summer.
So I can't speak to how much it takes to road race, but I think it's fair to assume that it takes a larger budget than showing up in your street car on a Sunday morning and paying 30 bucks
So don't get discouraged if your goal is autocrossing! In grad school I was making like $14k/year, had to pay rent out of that, and was still able to autocross almost every weekend of the summer.
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Re: (MSchu)
I'm turning 36 soon and been autocrossing for 10 years.
With my 2 businesses and my Assistant Manager position I make about 20k a year. Wife works at the hospital and we have 2 kids with one due in June.
I know I used to be an autocross ***** from 2002-2005. In those years I attended 100-120 autocrosses. Topping off with 40 autocrosses in 2005. Those were expensive years Now with a bigger family, a higher position, and a house to take care of I'm doing about 10-15.
Racing doesn't have to be expensive as long as you plan ahead. Bring food and water, get into a class that is cheap (like stock classes), and keep up with maintenance.
With my 2 businesses and my Assistant Manager position I make about 20k a year. Wife works at the hospital and we have 2 kids with one due in June.
I know I used to be an autocross ***** from 2002-2005. In those years I attended 100-120 autocrosses. Topping off with 40 autocrosses in 2005. Those were expensive years
Now with a bigger family, a higher position, and a house to take care of I'm doing about 10-15.Racing doesn't have to be expensive as long as you plan ahead. Bring food and water, get into a class that is cheap (like stock classes), and keep up with maintenance.
Painting Masterpieces
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,962
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: (CivicSiRacer)
I've known a few wealthy individuals get into financial trouble b/c of their race car expense. And I've seen peeps camp out on the race track grounds eating franks and beans.
I'd follow Mark Donohue's advice, "get into the least expensive car you can afford b/c racing is expensive." Or something to that affect.
I'd follow Mark Donohue's advice, "get into the least expensive car you can afford b/c racing is expensive." Or something to that affect.
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From: Murphy, Tx, USA
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (Chaveli)
Check the clubs out here in Texas. I just moved out here (near Plano) and used to road race on the East Coast. I am no longer racing due to the risk to my family (higher life insurance, more expenses, etc.), but I am doing the Porsche Club Time Trials and BWM Autocrosses at Mineral Wells (Mineral Wells = the largest parking lot I have EVER seen... I am easily into 4th gear on most autocrosses/time trials)
http://mav.pca.org
http://www.lscbmwcca.org/
To answer your question about financing road racing... it all depends on debt, savings, priorities, etc. There is no one answer, but I will answer this, you will need a job where you can afford to:
1. Store your race car (either house w/ two car garage or rent at a storage facility)
2. Own a truck and trailer
3. Spend at least $10K to $15K cash a year on a racing season
WHILE
4. Still saving 10% for your personal savings
5. Maintaining your normal lifestyle while not going into debt
MOST PEOPLE FORGET STEPS 4 & 5 ! I did and I am still paying for it....
http://mav.pca.org
http://www.lscbmwcca.org/
To answer your question about financing road racing... it all depends on debt, savings, priorities, etc. There is no one answer, but I will answer this, you will need a job where you can afford to:
1. Store your race car (either house w/ two car garage or rent at a storage facility)
2. Own a truck and trailer
3. Spend at least $10K to $15K cash a year on a racing season
WHILE
4. Still saving 10% for your personal savings
5. Maintaining your normal lifestyle while not going into debt
MOST PEOPLE FORGET STEPS 4 & 5 ! I did and I am still paying for it....
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: ct, usa
As you can quickly see, there’s quite a range of what people say it costs to go racing. It can be done on a wide range of budgets. There are many areas where you determine how much you can afford to spend. I can tell you for a fact that you absolutely can race on a modest budget. A couple of months ago I was thinking about some of my experiences and just how badly I wanted to race on an EXTREMELY low budget. I decided to write a brief blog which you might get a kick out of. http://www.goaheadtakethewheel....html
One key when doing this is to evaluate what items are truly needed versus items it would be nice to have. I’ve actually heard numerous people say that an enclosed trailer and expensive tools are necessary to race. LOL Take the whole process in baby steps. You don’t need to go right out and buy a racecar, trailer, and all of the other goodies. Take some time and develop some initial goals, then a budget for the beginning phases. Your first focus should just be getting out there (safely). Take the time to carefully evaluate the various costs people throw out there and determine how that might relate to your goals / budget. What I was initially told regarding the whole “what it costs to go racing†prevented me from doing it sooner, which I regret. Eventually I became so annoyed, as pointed out I wrote a book on the subject.
My current goal is to be a front-running driver, which equates to a much higher budget then in the past. Even still, I can assure you I don't spend anywhere near the budget David just mentioned, although I would love to!
The key is to do what works best for you, and how much you decide to spend.
One key when doing this is to evaluate what items are truly needed versus items it would be nice to have. I’ve actually heard numerous people say that an enclosed trailer and expensive tools are necessary to race. LOL Take the whole process in baby steps. You don’t need to go right out and buy a racecar, trailer, and all of the other goodies. Take some time and develop some initial goals, then a budget for the beginning phases. Your first focus should just be getting out there (safely). Take the time to carefully evaluate the various costs people throw out there and determine how that might relate to your goals / budget. What I was initially told regarding the whole “what it costs to go racing†prevented me from doing it sooner, which I regret. Eventually I became so annoyed, as pointed out I wrote a book on the subject.
My current goal is to be a front-running driver, which equates to a much higher budget then in the past. Even still, I can assure you I don't spend anywhere near the budget David just mentioned, although I would love to!
The key is to do what works best for you, and how much you decide to spend.
Painting Masterpieces
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,962
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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (davidnyc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am no longer racing due to the risk to my family (higher life insurance, more expenses, etc.)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting. Did you try and get insured after you started racing or before? I've got several policies through Metlife, Hancock, American National and none of them will exclude me if I decide to race. All are multi-year term. Our estate planner may have had to do some searching though.
Interesting. Did you try and get insured after you started racing or before? I've got several policies through Metlife, Hancock, American National and none of them will exclude me if I decide to race. All are multi-year term. Our estate planner may have had to do some searching though.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Morgantown, wv, usa
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (davidnyc)
Your best bet is to, stay in school, get a good 4 year college degree, get a good job, then you can road race a full season.
While in school, you can do as many auto-x events as you can (they are cheap to enter). Maybe do a few track days when you get the funds, you can even be a corner worker for 1 weekend and get a free day with NASA.
most road racers I know who can race a full season are Engineers, computer programmers, own a successful body/car shop or a dealership.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To answer your question about financing road racing... it all depends on debt, savings, priorities, etc. There is no one answer, but I will answer this, you will need a job where you can afford to:
1. Store your race car (either house w/ two car garage or rent at a storage facility)
2. Own a truck and trailer
3. Spend at least $10K to $15K cash a year on a racing season
WHILE
4. Still saving 10% for your personal savings
5. Maintaining your normal lifestyle while not going into debt
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with this.
While in school, you can do as many auto-x events as you can (they are cheap to enter). Maybe do a few track days when you get the funds, you can even be a corner worker for 1 weekend and get a free day with NASA.
most road racers I know who can race a full season are Engineers, computer programmers, own a successful body/car shop or a dealership.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To answer your question about financing road racing... it all depends on debt, savings, priorities, etc. There is no one answer, but I will answer this, you will need a job where you can afford to:
1. Store your race car (either house w/ two car garage or rent at a storage facility)
2. Own a truck and trailer
3. Spend at least $10K to $15K cash a year on a racing season
WHILE
4. Still saving 10% for your personal savings
5. Maintaining your normal lifestyle while not going into debt
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree with this.
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From: Murphy, Tx, USA
Re: (granracing)
Dave (granracing) brings up some good points.... patience, goals, and time. I didn't read all of his blog or book but basically:
Do you "need" a truck and trailer = no. If you crash/mechanical a 1000 mile tow is still cheaper than the expense of buying a truck and trailer (can always buy a truck/trailer when funds are available)
Do you "need" new race tires = no. Many used tires still have plenty of meat, but just aren't up to that last tenth or full second of lap time. (you don't need the new tires when starting UNLESS you are very talented and are a contender for the win. Later on as skill increase, new tires will be a good thing to have)
Do you "need" to stay at the hotel = no. I have slept at tracks and a tent, track shower, portable stove and proper clothing is ok for the weekend. (This is a toss up and staying at the track has benefits, staying in a hotel has benefits)
Do you "need" to race a fast car = no. Faster cars = more brake and tire expenses, there is tons of fun in ITC/ITB/H5 and Spec (Miata - E30, etc.) series.
You can easily race on about $800 a weekend but I don't think much less than that considering entry fee is about $300 and the price of gas is rising.
Do you "need" a truck and trailer = no. If you crash/mechanical a 1000 mile tow is still cheaper than the expense of buying a truck and trailer (can always buy a truck/trailer when funds are available)
Do you "need" new race tires = no. Many used tires still have plenty of meat, but just aren't up to that last tenth or full second of lap time. (you don't need the new tires when starting UNLESS you are very talented and are a contender for the win. Later on as skill increase, new tires will be a good thing to have)
Do you "need" to stay at the hotel = no. I have slept at tracks and a tent, track shower, portable stove and proper clothing is ok for the weekend. (This is a toss up and staying at the track has benefits, staying in a hotel has benefits)
Do you "need" to race a fast car = no. Faster cars = more brake and tire expenses, there is tons of fun in ITC/ITB/H5 and Spec (Miata - E30, etc.) series.
You can easily race on about $800 a weekend but I don't think much less than that considering entry fee is about $300 and the price of gas is rising.
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Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Murphy, Tx, USA
Re: Wow....How old do I have to be, and how much must I make a year???? (Ponyboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ponyboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Interesting. Did you try and get insured after you started racing or before? I've got several policies through Metlife, Hancock, American National and none of them will exclude me if I decide to race. All are multi-year term. Our estate planner may have had to do some searching though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Full story....
Wife and I want half a million policy each... trying to get insured while racing.
Underwriter calls me... blah blah blah...my racing is a sprint in length not endurance raing
Policy comes back.... participates in Amateur Sprint Car Racing and it is uber expensive
Me, "Oh heck no I don't !!!" That is not the type of racing I participate in.
I send a letter and I am awaiting to hear back from them.
Nonetheless, racing does not sit well with my wife. I have been trying to squeeze a few races in a year, here and there, but the stress it causes her is not worth it and plus the added expense that I don't need at this time in our life....higher insurance, racing costs, while trying to start a family....doesn't addup. Out here in Texas the timetrial/HPDE stuff will fulfill me for now.
Interesting. Did you try and get insured after you started racing or before? I've got several policies through Metlife, Hancock, American National and none of them will exclude me if I decide to race. All are multi-year term. Our estate planner may have had to do some searching though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Full story....
Wife and I want half a million policy each... trying to get insured while racing.
Underwriter calls me... blah blah blah...my racing is a sprint in length not endurance raing
Policy comes back.... participates in Amateur Sprint Car Racing and it is uber expensive
Me, "Oh heck no I don't !!!" That is not the type of racing I participate in.
I send a letter and I am awaiting to hear back from them.
Nonetheless, racing does not sit well with my wife. I have been trying to squeeze a few races in a year, here and there, but the stress it causes her is not worth it and plus the added expense that I don't need at this time in our life....higher insurance, racing costs, while trying to start a family....doesn't addup. Out here in Texas the timetrial/HPDE stuff will fulfill me for now.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: ct, usa
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most road racers I know who can race a full season are...</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is part of the problem with these discussions. My perception of a full season probably is different than yours, or the next persons. From the beginning I also knew I'd enjoy instructing others at HPDEs (also has the benefit of a free entry).
David basically sumed up what I was getting at.
Keep an eye on the smaller ticket items because if you don't, they can add up very quickly.
Every family is different, but my wife would rather me race than drive on many highways. I'll admit that in my pre-racing years I did some stupid stuff on the streets. I now have an controlled outlet, save it for the track, and in the end has probably saved my butt in more than one way. I'd be happy to post how I approached the whole safety thing if interested.
Modified by granracing at 12:58 PM 3/20/2008
This is part of the problem with these discussions. My perception of a full season probably is different than yours, or the next persons. From the beginning I also knew I'd enjoy instructing others at HPDEs (also has the benefit of a free entry).
David basically sumed up what I was getting at.
Keep an eye on the smaller ticket items because if you don't, they can add up very quickly.
Every family is different, but my wife would rather me race than drive on many highways. I'll admit that in my pre-racing years I did some stupid stuff on the streets. I now have an controlled outlet, save it for the track, and in the end has probably saved my butt in more than one way. I'd be happy to post how I approached the whole safety thing if interested.
Modified by granracing at 12:58 PM 3/20/2008
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From: Sears Point, CA
Re: (granracing)
I keep referring to the book by Granracing - http://www.goaheadtakethewheel.com/
It's helped to keep me "grounded" a bit...as much as I would like that pimpy set of shocks, what I have now will keep me on the track, and allow me to drive perfectly fine.
I bought a used car, and boy did I save a lot of $$ on it as opposed to building a car.
It's helped to keep me "grounded" a bit...as much as I would like that pimpy set of shocks, what I have now will keep me on the track, and allow me to drive perfectly fine.
I bought a used car, and boy did I save a lot of $$ on it as opposed to building a car.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,476
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Re: (Austin)
Your make your own budget with racing.
I used to work on a stock car team that competed in every race of the season.
I also worked on another team in a higher division that competed in about 1/2 of of the races.
1 team spent over $10,000 a year.
The other team spend less than $5,000(and probably even less than that).
You will be suprised to know that the lower cost team won the championship.
The car was never involved in a wreck requiring work beyond ducktape, fiberglass repair, or replacing a fender replacement. The right front tire was NEVER replaced, it lasted a whole season (this tire was not even on the ground at or past the apex).
That being said.. sponshipships provided the following:
Oil Change for each race weekend
5 gallons of gas for the tow vehicle each weekend
All necessary Race Gas for the race car for the entire season
1 Large Pizza for each race night.
1 set of mechanics gloves for each crew member
some cash to offset entry fees
So it's going to depend on:
What division you are racing in.
How far away from the track you are.
How much free **** you can get from people.
How good you want your car too look
How reliable your car is
How many wrecks you get in
How many races you want to run.
I can tell you this:
for HPDE, I spend no less than $600.00 per weekend.
so if you go 10 weekends at this bargain rate, you are looking at $6,000.
My rate goes up as fuel rates go up too.
Buying a well sorted, used car will help a bunch too.
Little **** adds up.
If you are making $24,000 , $6k is about 1/4 of your PRE-TAX income, which is about 1/3 of your take home money.
Modified by Crazydave at 11:19 AM 3/20/2008
I used to work on a stock car team that competed in every race of the season.
I also worked on another team in a higher division that competed in about 1/2 of of the races.
1 team spent over $10,000 a year.
The other team spend less than $5,000(and probably even less than that).
You will be suprised to know that the lower cost team won the championship.
The car was never involved in a wreck requiring work beyond ducktape, fiberglass repair, or replacing a fender replacement. The right front tire was NEVER replaced, it lasted a whole season (this tire was not even on the ground at or past the apex).
That being said.. sponshipships provided the following:
Oil Change for each race weekend
5 gallons of gas for the tow vehicle each weekend
All necessary Race Gas for the race car for the entire season
1 Large Pizza for each race night.
1 set of mechanics gloves for each crew member
some cash to offset entry fees
So it's going to depend on:
What division you are racing in.
How far away from the track you are.
How much free **** you can get from people.
How good you want your car too look
How reliable your car is
How many wrecks you get in
How many races you want to run.
I can tell you this:
for HPDE, I spend no less than $600.00 per weekend.
so if you go 10 weekends at this bargain rate, you are looking at $6,000.
My rate goes up as fuel rates go up too.
Buying a well sorted, used car will help a bunch too.
Little **** adds up.
If you are making $24,000 , $6k is about 1/4 of your PRE-TAX income, which is about 1/3 of your take home money.
Modified by Crazydave at 11:19 AM 3/20/2008
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From: Middlesex, NJ, United States
Road racing can be done on a budget if you are willing to make a lot of compromises. You will have to cut out a lot of luxuries in your every day life to be able to do this.
What I've learned.
Buy a car that is already built, even if it is slow and not all that well sorted, you can make it faster as you get faster. It will also teach you how to work on the car and you will know it intimately. Just make sure the car comes with a clean title and you can register the car.
Camp at the track or split the cost of hotels with as many friends as you can.
You don't need a truck and trailer. Drive the car to the track, my old H5 car got well over 35MPG, yeah, less then a tank of gas to get from Jersey to Mid Ohio.
Bring your own water and beer in a cooler, make sure you bring extra beer, people are always willing to lend an hand for a beer.
Travel light. You don't need to bring your entire tool box, just think of how many tools you have never used, leave them at home. Bring a few spare items that you know might break. Always bring a spare set of brake pads if you are driving the car to the track.
Have an alternate plan to get the car home if you blow it up or it gets crashed. Friends/fellow drivers who live in your general area who have cars that are also registered are good to have.
I drove my first H5 car to every event for two seasons without a hitch. The last event of the second season the car got trashed by my codrivers in an enduro and we ended up having to tow it home on a trailer while I drove his Spec Miata home.
An alternate to a trailer is a tow dolly. You can always get them used and you don't need a huge diesel truck to tow them with. You can also hit up Police auctions and get retired police cars to tow with. They have big motors and upgraded suspensions.
What I've learned.
Buy a car that is already built, even if it is slow and not all that well sorted, you can make it faster as you get faster. It will also teach you how to work on the car and you will know it intimately. Just make sure the car comes with a clean title and you can register the car.
Camp at the track or split the cost of hotels with as many friends as you can.
You don't need a truck and trailer. Drive the car to the track, my old H5 car got well over 35MPG, yeah, less then a tank of gas to get from Jersey to Mid Ohio.
Bring your own water and beer in a cooler, make sure you bring extra beer, people are always willing to lend an hand for a beer.
Travel light. You don't need to bring your entire tool box, just think of how many tools you have never used, leave them at home. Bring a few spare items that you know might break. Always bring a spare set of brake pads if you are driving the car to the track.
Have an alternate plan to get the car home if you blow it up or it gets crashed. Friends/fellow drivers who live in your general area who have cars that are also registered are good to have.
I drove my first H5 car to every event for two seasons without a hitch. The last event of the second season the car got trashed by my codrivers in an enduro and we ended up having to tow it home on a trailer while I drove his Spec Miata home.
An alternate to a trailer is a tow dolly. You can always get them used and you don't need a huge diesel truck to tow them with. You can also hit up Police auctions and get retired police cars to tow with. They have big motors and upgraded suspensions.
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: San Diego., CA, USA
Re: (Zephyr-The Subaru Guy)
just FYI- don't forget the easy option- rent a ride. (I would highly recommend this)
The "Fixed cost" should make it easy to figure out if you can afford it or not- no long term commitments, no trucks, no trailers, nada...
ex: http://www.sevensonly.com/
I think my first season was 25-30k which I paid in cash. (which included all car, hotels, parts, etc...)
**oh, bTW- I originally tried to budget the season into 12k... oops.
The "Fixed cost" should make it easy to figure out if you can afford it or not- no long term commitments, no trucks, no trailers, nada...
ex: http://www.sevensonly.com/
I think my first season was 25-30k which I paid in cash. (which included all car, hotels, parts, etc...)
**oh, bTW- I originally tried to budget the season into 12k... oops.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Arlington/ South central LA, Texas/ Cali, USA
Re: (D.CACO)
Man you guys are all very wise on the subject!! I appreciate your posts, I will take this knowledge and apply some of it lol!!! Some of yall cats are in debt im tryin to stay out of that..... But yeah im workin on becoming an Aeronautical / Mechanical engineer right now thats my major. So I guess just playin the waiting game now.....but ill continue to build my cars!!!!