FIRST, I need to verify that the below OEM suspension geometry specifications are correct.

Specified ranges for 94-01 Integra RS/LS/SE/GS-R

Left front
Camber -1.17 0.83
Toe -0.08 0.08
Caster 0.17 2.17
Right front
Camber -1.17 0.83
Toe -0.08 0.08
Caster 0.17 2.17

Left rear
Camber -2.00 0.00
Toe 0.04 0.16
Right rear
Camber -2.00 0.00
Toe 0.04 0.16

Since Honda provides a range for my car's camber angle specification, as shown above, why not just call it a day and set the camber for all of the wheels at 0 degrees (straight up and down)?

It just seems easier to set the camber if I set it at 0 all the way around. Right?

Thanks in advance.

 

Because 0 is not the center of the tolerance range.

It should technically be set to -0.17 front and -1.00 rear, but camber isn't adjustable without an aftermarket kit anyway.

Why would you want to set the camber to zero?

 

if you set your camber to 0 your gonna eat up the outside of the tire

 

I was actually going to set my camber at our shop, which has a relatively flat floor. I planned on using a digital angle finder meter.

So I am guessing that I should go ahead and try to achieve -.17 camber in the front and -1.0 in the rear. Right? Obviously, since it is the median of the range of correct specification.

I am lowering my car 1.5 inches with the Goldline lowering springs; maybe even 2.0 inches if I go with the Neuspeed springs. As of now, I do plan on using the Goldline springs. I do not have an alignment machine in the shop, but I can use an angle finder to set it. I just need to find the angle of the shop floor and zero the meter according to that reference angle.

The whole idea of setting the camber at 0 all the way around was for sake of simplicity.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't touch the camber. Just leave it as-is. The static negative camber you'll gain with the lowering springs will be fine. If you bought camber adjustment kits, return them.

However, you are going to need to reset the toe to avoid chewing up the inside shoulders of the tires after lowering the ride height. The toe is the most important spec in terms of tire wear.

 

Sounds good.

I am almost positive I will need new shocks/struts. The KYB GR2's come to mind rather quickly. Would you say the GR2's are a bad choice for ONLY a 1.5 to 2.0 inch drop?

What do you think?


Modified by integrawow at 10:22 PM 3/17/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integrawow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm totally not, or in any way, saying you're wrong, but the spring manufacturer recommends a camber adjustment, or to put the setting back to stock.</TD></TR></TABLE>
A lot of manufacturers recommend a lot of things that don't make sense. It helps to know why they make recommendations; most suggestions are made to avoid warranty or reputation issues when the end user does something improperly. If you know what you're doing, you can make informed choices on when it is necessary to follow the manufacturer's guidelines and when you can ignore them.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am supposing that you mean the extra negative camber that I gain will not put me outside of the acceptable camber range specification. Right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It likely will put you outside of the factory tolerance range. However, this is not necessarily a bad thing. With a 1.5-2.0" reduction in ride height, the static negative camber acquired will be nowhere near excessive enough to cause uneven tire wear, and will actually be more ideal to improve the handling of the car. You want some static negative camber to keep the tire planted more evenly on the road under roll and avoid wearing out the outer shoulders.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Also, the toe changes when the camber goes more negative? I can only imagine that it could, but at what rate does it typically do so?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Both your toe and camber are dynamic, meaning they change as the suspension moves (or as you change the static ride height). Toe always changes with camber, so any time you adjust camber, you must also adjust the toe afterwards. The double-wishbone Civic/Integra platform toes out up front under compression, and the rear toes in under compression. Toe must be reset as close to perfect as possible to avoid drastically uneven tire wear. You can play with toe settings to adjust the behavior of the car throughout a corner, but be advised that it will chew up the tires. Even a very small amount of static toe in or out will cause uneven wear.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integrawow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am almost positive I will need new shocks/struts. The KYB GR2's come to mind rather quickly. Would you say the GR2's are a bad choice for ONLY a 1.5 to 2.0 inch drop?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd save a little bit of extra cash to spring for some Tokico Illuminas instead.

 

Sounds really good.

So after reading your replies, I would definitely agree that you do make alot of sense. I guess I should go ahead and get the 2.0 springs and set my toe at 1/8" toe'd in.

Thanks again.

 

I wouldn't run 1/8" toe-in.

I'd run the front at 0.00 toe, or as close as humanly possible. I'd probably set the rear to 1/16" toe-in.

 

How do I set the rear toe? I didn't realize I could set both the front and rear. Will this be critical after lowering the rear?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integrawow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How do I set the rear toe? I didn't realize I could set both the front and rear. Will this be critical after lowering the rear?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, you will need to reset the rear toe. The adjuster is located where the toe compensator arm (the small control arm at the front of each trailing arm) bolts to the chassis.

 

Doesn't it adjust with shims?

I'm not talking about the rear camber. I'm refering to the rear toe. I just haven't looked at it enough. I'm sure after I look at it for a while, it'll make sense, and i'll know how to adjust it, rear toe that is.

 

No shims. The toe compensator arm is held to the chassis by a single bolt. To adjust toe, you loosen the bolt (do not remove) and pry the front of the trailing arm left or right to set the desired spec, then tighten the bolt.

 

Thankyou for all of your help. I have learned alot.

 

 

You really need to adjust toe on an alignment rack to get all 4 wheels set correctly relative to the centerline of the car.

I run about -1.5 to -1.75 camber with minimal tire wear issues, and no camber kits.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You really need to adjust toe on an alignment rack to get all 4 wheels set correctly relative to the centerline of the car.

I run about -1.5 to -1.75 camber with minimal tire wear issues, and no camber kits. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So people don't get confused...centerline of the car has nothing to do with alignment.

Front wheels need to be centered(same angle on both sides), for the rears to be read off of. Once the rear toe settings are set, then the steering wheel is centered and the front right/left is adjusted off the rear axle. Center line has nothing to do with it...in theory.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evs-One &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So people don't get confused...centerline of the car has nothing to do with alignment.

Front wheels need to be centered(same angle on both sides), for the rears to be read off of. Once the rear toe settings are set, then the steering wheel is centered and the front right/left is adjusted off the rear axle. Center line has nothing to do with it...in theory.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I mentioned centerline as the base reference line. What if someone tried to string up a car in their garage for a DIY alignment, put a tape across the front and rear sides of tires and adjusted the toe so that the front and rear measurements matched. That's zero total toe. But one side could potentially be toe'd out and the other side toe'd in so that total toe was zero, but each side was still out of spec.

The shop I go to (does alignments the old school way) can only do one axle at a time, and the guy always starts with the front, but it always seems to be spot on when he gets done. I'm not really sure how it works.

 

old school way as in he sprays paint down the middle of the tire??

Old school alignment guys are dope! I was spoiled with expensive Hunter machines

And it goes against everything to align the fronts first, as the fronts are adjusted in relation to the rears....but if it's not too out of wack, it should be ok.

 

alignment shop set my camber to 0 when i first had one done i didnt know back then. the car handles like crap and i killed the outside shoulders in the auto x.

 

HI, i have an 98 jdm int type r and am having problems with the suspension geometry. A previous owner has put fully adjustable coilovers on it with a camber kit, the problem is the camber and toe are set to ridiculous angles and is eating my tires like no tomorrow. my int goes to honda for a 4 wheel alignment but the guy there says he does not know the original suspension geometry, is the above any good to him? can i even set the coilovers to the original spec? does anyone know the original spec or can someone give me a good set of geometry that will give good handling like the int is known for and not eat my tires so bad. please help. sorry for not posting a new thread but i am a new member so i cannot. just hope someone see's this post in time only got one day left.