my father is a machinist and is teaching me the trade... i can make everything at our shop... i have a welder but i'm not great with but my buddy russ is a pro. he'll be welding/teaching me too. I've read that they can bind up. maybe just so does and don't would help out.

thanks for any help

 

Some bind because they are on mounted on a different axis than the lower control arm. In order to swing evenly with the lower control arm, the inner mounting points have to be on the same central axis.

 

Two points define an axis of rotation, so the two points will always be on the same axis. the problem is if the joints you use on the ends of the bar do not want to rotate on that axis. This is why heim joints area used on traction bars, they alow a higher degree of misalignment than rubber bushings. What I mean is that the axis of rotation of the joint doesn't have to be along the arm that it's bolted to, instead it can go through the other control arm pivot.

Draw out your design, and then draw the axis between the two control arm pivots, find the angle between that line and the line through the heim joint (along the forward part of the control arm), and make sure that whatever joint you use has a misalignment angle equal to or greater than that angle, and it won't bind.

 

This is not right, I'll try to be constructive about it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Niles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Two points define an axis of rotation, so the two points will always be on the same axis. ok, so a traction bar adds a 3rd point on the same axis...the problem is if the joints you use on the ends of the bar do not want to rotate on that axis.that means you welded the tabs on the cross member in the wrong spot This is why heim joints area used on traction bars, they alow a higher degree of misalignment than rubber bushings.no it's not. there is no misalignmet if you build it right. What I mean is that the axis of rotation of the joint doesn't have to be along the arm that it's bolted to, instead it can go through the other control arm pivot. that is not true, you need have all 3 in line

Draw out your design, and then draw the axis between the two control arm pivots, find the angle between that line and the line through the heim joint (along the forward part of the control arm), and make sure that whatever joint you use has a misalignment angle equal to or greater than that angle, and it won't bind. thats not it works. All heims can rotate 360* around the axis we use them on traction bars. misalignment is from not laying it out properly.</TD></TR></TABLE>
OP, This thread is 3 1/2 years old and it has all the information you will need to make your own. They are very simple once you understand how it is supposed to work. There is even a nice example of a setup tool in this thread to help you eliminate any binding. I suggest you make this and use it.https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=957387

 

WOW, you clearly either don't understand the terminology used or you're talking about something completely unrelated. I suggest studying the parts we're talking about.

An axis is a LINE, lines are defined by TWO points. In this case the forward and rearward lower control arm pivots. This is a geometric fact pre-dating ancient greece. If you've found something contradicting this in euclidian geometry, you're going to have to publish a paper on it and educate the rest of the world.

Misalignment is the ability of a heim joint to rotate about an axis not parallel to the bolt that runs through it. This is a definition, and a specification of heim joints. It's the ENTIRE reason heim joints even exist. The higher the misalignment rating, the more feedom of movement it has. Of course they have 360 degrees of fredom along the axis of the bolt, the races are round, they rotate around an axis through the bolt. The misalignment allows the axis through the rear lower control arm pivot to act as the axis of rotation for the whole control arm. If you don't believe me, build a traction bar with no bushings and just a bolt at some random angle that is not directly along the line of the other lower control arm pivot. It won't rotate without bending the crap out of something.
The reason the stock design works is because the big rubber donut in the forward crossmember allows rotation around the axis between the forward and rearward mounting points. It flexes to allow this. This is also why, if you look in the roadrace/autocross section of H-T, you'll find people using poly bushings in place of the rubber ones wear them out. The heim joint allows the movement that the rubber did by rotating about a misaligned axis (an axis not parallel to the bolt running through the joint) instead of requiring something to flex around.

What is this third point you're talking about? Traction bars don't add a pivot to the control arm, they REPLACE one.

When I say 'misalignment' I'm not reffering to errors from shitty pirate 4x4 build quality, I'm reffering to a defining quality of the heim joint.

Now, If I'm wrong, go ahead and show me with a diagram, and I'll forward it to every engineering kinematics textbook writer in the world to show them that existing designs, the science of geometry, and every mechanical engineer educated in kinematics in the past 500 years was wrong.

 

 

Wow, this thread just made a traction bar HIGHLY over complicated. All this jargon and counter-jargon...lol.

Simple english...make the damn thing swing on the same axis as the lower control arm. Suspension design books make it easy to understand how to do that. Also, allow the radius rods heim joint to pivot properly. Cut and dry if you ask me, though I've seen homemade ones that definitely suck *** and aren't built properly for sh*t.

 

All i was going to do was remove my LCA, then put a bit of tube or stud bar through the 2 mounting points of the LCA then where the tube touches the crossbar will be where the heim joint needs to go.

I've seen a few kits using aluminium radius rods? Are these just as good their steel counterpart?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid2007 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All i was going to do was remove my LCA, then put a bit of tube or stud bar through the 2 mounting points of the LCA then where the tube touches the crossbar will be where the heim joint needs to go.

I've seen a few kits using aluminium radius rods? Are these just as good their steel counterpart?</TD></TR></TABLE>If a rod would fit through both at once I'm sure that would get you close. The expanding radius rod in the thread I linked you to would be more precise though.

A nice 6061 radius rod is fine for this application. Speedway has some good deals on them.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, this thread just made a traction bar HIGHLY over complicated. All this jargon and counter-jargon...lol.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

"But an axis is defined by a elucidian misalignment of a heim joint spec in a theoretical vacuum over the past 500 years...." [puts gun to head]

 

hahahahaa....


I tell you...being I've seen some shot *** setups still take a car down the track, you don't have to be dead ***** apparently...lol. You can use frame charts to assist you, that's what I've done.

 

No, it's true. We build cages and suspension parts for circle track and drag cars at my work. The stuff we see sometime that has actually worked on cars that have already run 9s is amazing..or shocking i guess you could say