Hello,
I've been debating this for a while. Due to ohio weather and rust... Money is going to limit and postpone my suspension wants for an unknown amount of time.

Car is a 1999 Civic SI, suspension is stock so far with the exception of a rear camber kit, tires Kuhmo SPT 195-55-15

With a koni and GC setup, I figure I will need about 1,200 when all is said and done. (shocks, springs, lower rear bar because of rusted seized bolts, random other bolts, an alignment and overall work since I am tool and space limited.)

However I autocross and I have noticed that I need something in the way of suspension bad... I often go up on 3 wheels or roll up on the side so much that traction is taken off of 4 wheels and onto 3, or even 2 depending on how you look at it... (mostly 3, with inside rear tire in the air, and outside front drilled into the ground, possibly bottomed out) Needless to say I lose all kinds of time because running slower or faster does not seem to help the situation. I have also seen a hatch with bad all season tires but good suspension set up completely beat me by no small amount in the turns.

Would the ASR sub-frame kit with the 24mm bar help any? Or would it be a complete waste of my time and money? I can find it much cheaper than the full setup, 350-380.

Thank you for your time, and please offer any other advice you feel could help.

 

what class do you run in? what class do you WANT to run in? sounds more like driver to me.

what tire pressures are you running?

personally, i'd set tires to 36 front, 40 rear atleast, and then get some decent shocks and leave it at that until more seat time. just a rear swaybar would "hurt" the symptoms you have now, even though those symptoms are pretty normal for any FWD car.

 

your gonna lift the inside rear... no matter what you do really..

you may be entering too hot... driver error

 

Lifting a rear inside tire is normal for double wishbone Hondas like yours. You want that to happen as it allows the car to rotate better.

If you are short on money lose the rear camber kit (basically a waste for your car with stock suspension) and go to stock class?

 

cant lose the camber kit, was out of spec by a bit and it was eating my tires. Also, Ive tried slowing down or faster etc... It just really feels like a boat. And even braking is an issue with too much nose drop, the rear lifts and sort of fishtails a bit. It could just be bad shocks all around. I know my EX didn't feel like this with the same tires. Only difference was a rota 15, that is offset a bit more. As for class, I just run X class. So I am pretty much good in whatever I do as long as it isn't a swap or turbo. At least around these parts.

I know lifting helps it turn, but the amount of softness I feel is .. waaay too much. For instance, I know they are very different in all aspects, but I can drop my times and run in the upper 5 of 60, in all classes (porsche club) in my brothers STI. I know i can drop my times, but I also know I am very near my limit. I have a car that is underpowered and needs to carry speed through the corners to make it up. With what I have, it severely limits my entry, and follow through speeds. The only thing I tend to do better than most drivers as is... is a tight S curve section. And that is exceedingly hard to keep it from throwing its weight around too much on with the body roll.

If you still think it is driver error and not the old stock setup... Then please give me some tips.

 

tip: camber doesn't eat tires, toe does. i have run -3.5 degrees of camber on my street cars and even my azenis barely showed any camber wear after 15k miles.

 

Save your money for shocks and springs, then decide if you still want sway bar. I run a '92 Si in DSP class, and have plenty of sweat, predictable rotation with my R compounds, but tire pressure is crucial. I also have the SPT's for street use, and the car doesn't rotate as nicely with them. I thought about a rear sway bar for several years, but finally gave up on that notion, as the car rotates just fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tip: camber doesn't eat tires, toe does. i have run -3.5 degrees of camber on my street cars and even my azenis barely showed any camber wear after 15k miles. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So Ive read... But with 0 toe. It still ate them, perhaps it is a spt thing, with the Kuhmos. Did it on my last car too.
I can only state what happened. I have no idea what other things could have caused it.

So here is my second dilemma :-P Get some Rotas, put the SPTs on them, and use the SI rims for some 710s or some other R compound.. Or keep the SPTs, destroy them this year and get something else since the size is no longer available wherever I look.

If I stay in Ohio, Ill need some winter tires though, we just got 8 inches of snow... ws-50, or ws-60, tis the question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CooBlueDAB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It still ate them, perhaps it is a spt thing, with the Kuhmos.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I ran a 205-45r16 spt last summer and i thought they were an excellent tire for what they are. They held up great and the sidewalls never rolled. I know some of it will be due to the size difference but i would really check your speed at corner entry if you are rolling them over. There are better tires out there, but the spt's were very predictable and just a good tire for the price.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SleeperGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I ran a 205-45r16 spt last summer and i thought they were an excellent tire for what they are. They held up great and the sidewalls never rolled. I know some of it will be due to the size difference but i would really check your speed at corner entry if you are rolling them over. There are better tires out there, but the spt's were very predictable and just a good tire for the price.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh I know, they do well, and dont roll when the pressure is up a little from normal. BUT I mean the inside of the rear tires wears 2-3 times faster than the rest
At least it did with camber out of whack... Who knows this year but the one set is already down to 1/5 tread on the inside. Go figure, it also wears a little different in that the beginning of the tread is a bit higher than the back of the same tread, almost like it was being pulled up or something think of a jaggy line if you look from the side. The only other thing I can think of, which COULD be the culprit in all of this, because of that pattern, is my shocks are more or less in need of replacing asap. But the car bounce test showed nothing, press down, and it just comes back up and settles.

 

jaggy edge is worn suspension, i'm pretty sure... the old "bounce" test really doesn't work unless your shocks are HUGELY blown. like... scary-like.

i know that the shocks were blown in my miata by the way the rear "kicked" on bumps. but it was fine on the bounce test...

blown shocks do funny things.. they are a wear item. i'd say after 80k, stock ones are definately ripe for the replacing. how many miles are on your shocks?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by E-AT_me &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">jaggy edge is worn suspension, i'm pretty sure... the old "bounce" test really doesn't work unless your shocks are HUGELY blown. like... scary-like.

i know that the shocks were blown in my miata by the way the rear "kicked" on bumps. but it was fine on the bounce test...

blown shocks do funny things.. they are a wear item. i'd say after 80k, stock ones are definately ripe for the replacing. how many miles are on your shocks? </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol I figured that, mine are well over, I believe originals from 99.. 106k miles haha. My ex lasted til about 110, then it dropped and definitely needed new ones.


Question that rises... Get standard midas or whatever ones for now. Spend probably 2-400 in total. Or wait, and save the 1200 Im guestimating I should need if it is as bad as I think... 740 for Yellows with GC custom rate... rest is other pieces and labor. .... Or just screw the good suspension, get kyb shocks and think of the only upgrade in springs later as H&Rs or something, for a very slight drop but stiffer rates... Still, I was hoping for a 400/450 rate to get rid of a need for sway bars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CooBlueDAB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If I stay in Ohio, Ill need some winter tires though, we just got 8 inches of snow... ws-50, or ws-60, tis the question.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I like Dunlop M3 snows. Better handling then WS50/60 almost as good snow performance. Better rain performance. Cheaper last time I looked.

How much neg camber do you have in the rear without the kit? If you have zero rear toe and are wearing tires fast and the susp. is stock then maybe its time to find another alignment shop. Something's wrong with the setup that you need camber correction on stock springs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CooBlueDAB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Question that rises... Get standard midas or whatever ones for now. Spend probably 2-400 in total. Or wait, and save the 1200 Im guestimating I should need if it is as bad as I think... 740 for Yellows with GC custom rate... rest is other pieces and labor. .... Or just screw the good suspension, get kyb shocks and think of the only upgrade in springs later as H&Rs or something, for a very slight drop but stiffer rates... Still, I was hoping for a 400/450 rate to get rid of a need for sway bars.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'd say search eBay and find something within your price range.