I'm in DESPERATE need of getting a bigger place to work. I'm highly limited by my ability to only get so much done due to space constraints. I've been looking all over the area for commercial space, but the cost is just so high that I just don't feel comfortable making the move.

Here today though, I've located a 10 car capacity shop for CHEAP! It's a damn nice place on a main road, but the issue is it's a good 45 minutes from where I'm currently located. It's not 45 minutes away into another close city location, it's actually 45min OUT from the city. So it's actually more rural in nature, which is why it's cheaper.

I'm trying to determine what's more to my best interests. To leave my customer base behind, and move to what's essentially a different area, or to stick where I am and hope to gain a more pronounced financial stronghold on my situation but stay local.

It is a more remote location without question, but I'm literally one of the only skilled and capable businesses around for probably 75 square miles...minimum.

The other issue is my part time guy will have to travel the additional distance. I'm really REALLY torn over this, which is why I'm turning to you guys. What do you think? Ride the wave and gamble on growth despite a more inconvenient location, or wait it out but constrict myself and my income due to space until a better location can be secured?

 

if you are good at what you do, and your customers are loyal, they will come to you, no matter where you are. 45minutes really isnt too bad of a drive... i would feel more safe away from the city as well. being that your building is very secure.

 

I would move people will drive the extra 45 minutes.

 

i get people driving up to an hour to come to my shop for car stuff when there are other shops much closer to them... BUT my bread and butter is my industrial work and I DELIVER to all my customers and the furthest away is 15 minutes, the closest, right next door. most are within 2 minutes of my shop. for me, location is key to being able to provide convenience to my industrial customers. i'd love to get a grade loading shop that was a bit bigger, but i'm in no rush to up my monthly lease rate... my advice, keep your overhead as low as you possibly can. when you get slow, it won't kill you like having a large overhead will.

 

Customers will drive the extra distance, and they'll be that much happier with your work once you have the space to be more organized and productive.

 

People will drive 45 min for some one they trust and for quality work. I drove and towed my car 8hrs to get my car tunned

 

about a year ago we moved 45 min. further away from civilization and became busier.

only pain in the *** is i have to drive back to where the old shop was for lots of stuff since there isnt any other stores/buisness's close now. obviously you try order as much stuff as you can, but we all know you run into circumstances when you need something NOW.

 

Well, alot of good responses here. I've been going over and over this since yesterday. I just spoke with the owner of the building concerning security. In 7 years he's had no problems, the town it's in is pretty safe, and the building itself is very secure. The garage doors are even protected, to an extent, from allowing a truck to back into one to break it opened. So security seems good.

The building comes with an 80 gallon compressor, lots of bench space, a 20x20 office, and about a 10 car capacity. The price is really unbelievable considering the space. The overhead is minimal, and considering the amount of extra work I could get done I think it'd work out.

It's just hard, when your comfortable with your situation, to extend yourself further. I know it's what I need to go to the next level though. I've done this for almost 10 years now, and I flopped hard in 2005. I overextended the budget, and when business dropped off I went into the red almost instantly. I made alot of mistakes that I'm not trying to repeat. I guess it's just the memories of last time that make me more cautious now.

I'm gonna go look at this spot saturday though....we'll see I guess.


Modified by RC000E at 5:39 PM 2/20/2008

 

How many people do you have working for you?

 

I have some people that have driven 3 hrs. Im not t1 yet and have people tow their cars from 10 hrs away

The only other thing you have to think about when having a shop 45min away from your home etc are the thieves. 45 minutes is alot of time to get alot of items out of a shop.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many people do you have working for you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I have two part time guys plus myself which basically counts as 2 full timers. I'm the only TIG welder, and my one part timer does MIG and makes most of my jigs. Engine building, wiring, fab is all done by me at this point.

I've talked to both of them about the distance and they both feel it isn't a problem so...


I think I'm gonna move forward. I've been pretty cautious and have really battled in my small space for a year and a half. If anything is holding me back, the space is it.

 

Are you going to move, or are you going to drive 45 min. each direction daily? That's going to get old pretty quick being the owner. You're going to spend a lot of time there, almost every single day of the year and working late plenty. Making that drive would be the deciding factor to me. I wouldn't do it.

 

We're 45 minutes away from our neighborhood and all of our customers. They'll still drive out to the shop...

You're not going to get alot of walk in customers, so plan on advertising alot. Also, make sure the place is easy to get to...Like not too far from a popular highway, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you going to move, or are you going to drive 45 min. each direction daily? That's going to get old pretty quick being the owner. You're going to spend a lot of time there, almost every single day of the year and working late plenty. Making that drive would be the deciding factor to me. I wouldn't do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that would be a deciding factor for me as well, i could never imagine having a 1.5 hour round trip drive to work, especially as owner/operator of the company.

this is a hypothetical way to look at it, but as a fabricator and the work/client base you have, you have to figure your time is worth at least 50 dollars an hour.

75 dollars a day (for a 1.5 hour drive) for a months period of working 6 days a week is 1800 plus your gas.

i know it's a stupid way to look at it but in reality if you can salvage an hour or more everyday you can get that much more work done during those approx. 36 hours a month you would spend commuting, probably enough work to afford the extra overhead of leasing a local place.

 

Yup, time is money...

 

Having a personal life and a family I find myself coming and going all day long from my shop. If I were 45 minutes away it would be really hard to pick up my sister from school when no one else can, take my mom to a doctor's appointment, you name it. Time is precious and I don't like spending it in the car burning $3.50/gallon gas. Just a thought.

Evan

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you going to move, or are you going to drive 45 min. each direction daily? That's going to get old pretty quick being the owner. You're going to spend a lot of time there, almost every single day of the year and working late plenty. Making that drive would be the deciding factor to me. I wouldn't do it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I did consider moving. Commercial property isn't the only property cheaper out that way. I admit, I like to be in more suburban settings, just cause I like being around stores and things at night.

On another note I talked to guy I know that paints and does body work. He's interested in the location for that purpose. So I may be able to split some of the space. He attracts alot of import guys and it's actually his integra I'm turbo'ing at the moment. So that may even further make this something more financially secure for me.

I've driven 35-45 minutes to work before and it really never bothered me. That max's my tolerance out, but I didn't mind it. When I exceed an hour though, that's when I start to really get irritated.

I used to work in Plano, TX at our one ambulance base, along with Mesquitte's base. I'd work a 24hr shift then drive home during rush hour to Denton....that SUCKED! Even the cut through Carollton would still take me like 1.5 hours to get home. Wearing a full uniform with a IIIa bullet proof vest and no air in my accord didn't help though...

 

my drive to the shop is 15 minutes, but when the traffic and weather get bad it has been as much as an hour. 45 min every day with two kids and a wife wouldn't last long for me either.

 

I think bringing the customers with you will be easy. At the last shop I worked for, me and another guy would draw customers from about a 200mile radius, past many other tuners and dynos. It's niche service you provide. location means virtually nothing.

As far as your commute...I think 45min is a waste of time. I used to live above my shop work, dinner, girlfriend love, work, sleep.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As far as your commute...I think 45min is a waste of time. I used to live above my shop work, dinner, girlfriend love, work, sleep.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I certainly love that luxury....that's what I have now. The area I live though, something like that just isn't affordable unless it's in some random ghetto.

I've been kind of in this position for a while, which led to me looking out further. I really don't feel confident that even if I wait it out that I can find what I need for a price that I can afford.

I have, on another note, found one other location. It has an upstairs store, and has a garage beneath. Problem is, this is in the town I was a TAC Officer in. The mayor and I are NOT on good terms, nor are I and the pres. of the council. The garage/building has ratts, and the ordinance officer in that town will be all over my **** for permits. The building is 700/mo, is listed as 1300 sq ft. The only plus side, is I know my stuff would be safe because other officer friends of mine that still work there would keep an eye on it.

Here's that location:










This location is roughly 20 minutes from me, and is adjacent to the city in a fairly descent neighborhood.

 

Maybe find a house that has a suitable pole barn / larger garage space then what you currently own/rent. There are a lot of hidden expenses in getting into commercial property with all the permits, code requirements, and additional liability insurance and renovation requirements for your business.

 

I've considered this for some time. I guess you have to be from this area to understand. Property close to my area is EXPENSIVE. A house with even a 1car garage will exceed 900/mo. Get into anything with a barn or multi car garage and your looking at 1500+ easy. I do that, then I get out of zoning to bring in motors like I currently do, and I'll run into other issues.

I'll be deliberating over this issue for a bit I think. The big issue that discourages the above shown location is those very permits and town policies. The other location that has a 10 car capacity is actually in a town that there aren't issues like this. I could move in on a private basis until later, without issue.

Hey, I need to call you actually and make another order...I need all kinds of stuff.... No 409 this time!!!

 

have you considered putting up a decent sized polebarn on your current property (being that you have the space for it ?) or maybe moving to a house on a decent plot of land, where you can do something like that ?

 

Looking at the prices you have posted for your lease makes me jealous. In miami I pay nearly triple that for 1600sq ft, and I need to move to a larger place as well. The place I would like to move into is $4000 a month, but thats really pushing it for me.

As of now I have enough work to last 3 months, but if it were ever to slow down I couldn't handle that lease payment.

 

It looks like the lease rates are significantly ahead of the cost of ownership for your area. I looked at a few census reports and they showed median income around $57k and median housing around $95k for that area (within 50 miles). I would really look carefully at options to buy that could work, even if they are just short terms options that may work for awhile (2 years minimum) and even if you had to partner up with somebody on the short term for financing.

It's just so easy as a business to get into a lease, get setup - running .. making the money, and never really think about how that money could be making you more money each month.

In our area, the average industrial cost per square foot is around 65 cents per square. We have a combined total of 7900 sq feet or roughly $5k a month if we had leased these properties. These same properties we instead purchased (slowly as we could afford them), and the payment on all of these is only around $3700/mo, with current property valuations nearing 1M for all of these properties. We purchased them for around half that. So even if our business only broke even, we have still seen greater then 150k a year in property valuation.

Just something to think about.