I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1
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From: Pacific Northwest, USA
I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1
So, since I toasted new rotors and pads during my first shakedown session with the new car, brake ducting has been high on my priority list. I ordered 12' of duct, and a single/double inlet (3") from Pegasus last week, and they finally arrived today. My goal for tonight was to just "test-fit" everything and find the easiest route for the duct. Things went well, and I'm almost done with everything. I still to adjust angles and tape a few things up, but this is basically what I have so far. The suspension and my race wheels clear at full droop and full compression.
The reason for the single inlet/double outlet scoop was that I didn't really have a good location for individual inlets. I have a cold air intake that lives just behind where the fog light hole is on the passenger side, and the windshield fluid bottle lives behind the one on the drivers side. This seemed like a good alternative.
Are you watching Mr. Umbay?
The reason for the single inlet/double outlet scoop was that I didn't really have a good location for individual inlets. I have a cold air intake that lives just behind where the fog light hole is on the passenger side, and the windshield fluid bottle lives behind the one on the drivers side. This seemed like a good alternative.
Are you watching Mr. Umbay?
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From: Ancaster, Ontario, Canada
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (Solo2Vtec)
looks good! How come you went with sheet metal instead of ABS plastic for the front chin spoiler? My ABS one is holding together well, though the splitter is pretty chewed up now. I was going to try making the splitter out of much thicker ABS next time around and fastening the whole thing with dzus fastners instead of pop-rivets so that I can take the thing off when street driving.
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From: I am Tyson
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (Maxi)
youre not worried about the plastic hoses being melted by the heat radiation from the exhaust manifold? speaking of which, why have you put a header on! youre depriving yourself of power.
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From: PA all day, USA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (Floyd)
Is the idea to provide cool air to the caliper, or the hub, where the rotor sucks air through its vanes?
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From: Pac NW
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (johng)
John.
What did you tie the end of the ducting to? I see a zip tie in the picture but can't see how you attached it.
Is there any nozzling or jacket that you could use to direct the air more precisely?
(You got a **** load of working room behind the front end of your car - compared to mine)
Greg - who lost over twenty pounds off the car this week, only to add it to his waist from all the beer and BBQ
EDIT: hangover spelling...
[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:04 PM 7/5/2002]
[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:05 PM 7/5/2002]
What did you tie the end of the ducting to? I see a zip tie in the picture but can't see how you attached it.
Is there any nozzling or jacket that you could use to direct the air more precisely?
(You got a **** load of working room behind the front end of your car - compared to mine)
Greg - who lost over twenty pounds off the car this week, only to add it to his waist from all the beer and BBQ
EDIT: hangover spelling...
[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:04 PM 7/5/2002]
[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:05 PM 7/5/2002]
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From: Edgewater, MD / La Jolla, CA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (Tyson)
sweet!
I own an integra but your ideas are universal. To me there's nothing quite as satisfying as seeing a good brake duct...
I own an integra but your ideas are universal. To me there's nothing quite as satisfying as seeing a good brake duct...
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From: Boston, MA, USA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (bulldog_RS20)
What did you tie the end of the ducting to? I see a zip tie in the picture but can't see how you attached it.
Is there any nozzling or jacket that you could use to direct the air more precisely?
Is there any nozzling or jacket that you could use to direct the air more precisely?
I was looking into the same thing that johng did and saw the supplies on the pegasus racing website but am cheap and thought there prices were kind of high. So after walking around home depot for a couple of hours some good ducting seems to be wet/dry vac hose, it's cheap, easily bendable and sturdy enough to put up with a lot of abuse. It's 2 1/2" inch diameter so it's probably small enough to squeeze in between things and the diameter isn't so big that you're not going to have enough air velocity. If you get too big of a diameter you're not going to have enough velocity. 2 1/2" seems good. Also, what seems good as a single inlet is the attachment for the end of the hose (looks similiar to the single inlet thta pegasus has) that vacuums the stuff up. It forms a slight nozzle shape to create pressure and it's made to attach to the hose you might have already bought, plus it's not expensive either. Just thought people might like some ideas.
Your set-up looks good johng, let us know how it works for you and keep us updated on how it holds up!!
s
[Modified by stevel, 2:11 AM 7/6/2002]
[Modified by stevel, 12:39 PM 3/20/2003]
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From: Where the streets have no, name., USA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (Floyd)
Some info on Brake Cooling modifications taken from a CFD company that has done testing on the matter:
The "Relected Caliper" modification is to mount the caliper on the rear of the rotor. They have a few flow study pictures. one shows tha the majority of airflow supplied to the brake rotor and caliper comes from just beneath the front edge of the front lip of a Mercedes; directly in front of the tire. Thsi is without any ducting. Also note that this study did not include ducting in it's scope.
The main Idea for cooling the caliper is to restict energy transfer into the fluid lines and maintaing the temp of the pads.
Good Day.
MODIFICATIONS
Three modifications are presented here. These are compared with the baseline in terms of integrated air flux through the rotor passages (Table 2) and heat transfer coefficients (Table 3).
(I)"NOCOVER"
As discussed previously, the brake cover plate acts like a baffle for the air flow coming to the disk. Therefore, it is of interest to see the effects on the cooling, if the cover plate is not used. This modification is named: (l) "NOCOVER".
The mass flow through the rotor Passages is increased by 20%, the heat transfer coefficient (averaged) is improved by 15%. These relations have influence on the magnitude of the disk temperatures of approximately 10% (see Figure 7).
(II) "REFLECTED CALIPER"
In the baseline model the caliper is relatively hidden inside the rim, so that it cannot be cooled very well. This probably has a negative influence on the brake fluid temperature. In order to prevent this slipstream situation of the caliper, it is reflected from the baseline position into the position behind the axle, with only minor changes to some other components. This modification is named here: (II) "Reflected Caliper".
The caliper's new position has two effects: On the one hand the surface of the caliper itself has 27% greater heat transfer coefficients. On the other hand there is less air flux through the disk (-12%), but which has nearly no influence on the cooling properties. See Table 3.
(III) "HOLES IN ROTOR"
The evaluation of the pressure conditions around the hub (see above) shows that the pressure is relatively low and inhibits the ventilation of the rotor. The geometry of the disk's hub allows one to put holes in it. Thus, 11 holes of diameter 25mm are added to the hub. This modification is named: (III) "Holes in Rotor".
The holes in the hub affect the mass flow through the disk passages by +18% and in consequence the averaged heat transfer coefficient by +13%. The increasing air flow to the rotor is equal to the mass flow through the holes under the hub. This additional feeding could be expected because of the low pressure under the hub.
Three modifications are presented here. These are compared with the baseline in terms of integrated air flux through the rotor passages (Table 2) and heat transfer coefficients (Table 3).
(I)"NOCOVER"
As discussed previously, the brake cover plate acts like a baffle for the air flow coming to the disk. Therefore, it is of interest to see the effects on the cooling, if the cover plate is not used. This modification is named: (l) "NOCOVER".
The mass flow through the rotor Passages is increased by 20%, the heat transfer coefficient (averaged) is improved by 15%. These relations have influence on the magnitude of the disk temperatures of approximately 10% (see Figure 7).
(II) "REFLECTED CALIPER"
In the baseline model the caliper is relatively hidden inside the rim, so that it cannot be cooled very well. This probably has a negative influence on the brake fluid temperature. In order to prevent this slipstream situation of the caliper, it is reflected from the baseline position into the position behind the axle, with only minor changes to some other components. This modification is named here: (II) "Reflected Caliper".
The caliper's new position has two effects: On the one hand the surface of the caliper itself has 27% greater heat transfer coefficients. On the other hand there is less air flux through the disk (-12%), but which has nearly no influence on the cooling properties. See Table 3.
(III) "HOLES IN ROTOR"
The evaluation of the pressure conditions around the hub (see above) shows that the pressure is relatively low and inhibits the ventilation of the rotor. The geometry of the disk's hub allows one to put holes in it. Thus, 11 holes of diameter 25mm are added to the hub. This modification is named: (III) "Holes in Rotor".
The holes in the hub affect the mass flow through the disk passages by +18% and in consequence the averaged heat transfer coefficient by +13%. The increasing air flow to the rotor is equal to the mass flow through the holes under the hub. This additional feeding could be expected because of the low pressure under the hub.
The main Idea for cooling the caliper is to restict energy transfer into the fluid lines and maintaing the temp of the pads.
Good Day.
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Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (WOTTEG)
Tyson,
I've been looking for a used header, but can't find one. I'm too cheap to shell out $300 for a new one. If anyone has one for sale that'll fit, lemme know. Hopefully the heat from the manifold won't fug it up.
Greg,
The end is simply zip tied to the lower shock fork. Like I said, I still have to play around with the snout angle and stuff to get a direct shot at the caliper.
Maxi,
I wanted to try something different. It's a lot more durable.
John -- who's spent and hungover from a long weekend in the sun
[Modified by johng, 3:16 PM 7/7/2002]
I've been looking for a used header, but can't find one. I'm too cheap to shell out $300 for a new one. If anyone has one for sale that'll fit, lemme know. Hopefully the heat from the manifold won't fug it up.
Greg,
The end is simply zip tied to the lower shock fork. Like I said, I still have to play around with the snout angle and stuff to get a direct shot at the caliper.
Maxi,
I wanted to try something different. It's a lot more durable.
John -- who's spent and hungover from a long weekend in the sun
[Modified by johng, 3:16 PM 7/7/2002]
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From: Pacific Northwest, USA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (JaeOne3345)
I spent some time again this evening trying to finish what I started. The right side is just about perfect, but the left side duct was getting sandwiched between the tire and the crank pulley at full lock. I had to lower the attachment on the shock fork and re-hang the rest of the duct, but it looks like everything clears really well now, even with suspension compression. If the zip ties don't work, I'll find another way.
Sorry for all the pictures in this thread.
Sorry for all the pictures in this thread.
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From: WI, USA
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (johng)
You may want to try to get the duct outlet directed closer to the center of the back of the brake rotor to get the extra air directed into the rotor. That is the setup I use on my 85 CRX ITC car and it works well. This also will get the air to cool both sides of the rotor to keep both sides of the rotor cool.
I am able to get the duct within a couple inches of the rotor.
I have experimented with different routings on the hose and on the driver's side, cannot use full lock on the steering without damaging the hose. This is only a problem in the pits or manuevering onto the trailer, etc. I am just carefull.
I would make sure you use some high temp hose instead of some of the less expensive materials so it holds up better.
Looks good though
I am able to get the duct within a couple inches of the rotor.
I have experimented with different routings on the hose and on the driver's side, cannot use full lock on the steering without damaging the hose. This is only a problem in the pits or manuevering onto the trailer, etc. I am just carefull.
I would make sure you use some high temp hose instead of some of the less expensive materials so it holds up better.
Looks good though
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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia
Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (ITACivic)
I have been working on brake ducts for my car for a while now. My design has been to attatch the ducting to the tie rod. This will be much closer to the rotor, and will continue to provide direct airflow even when the wheel is turned.
the challenges have been allowing for the slack required for full lock to lock, and the rubbing issues with it. (and well some other stuff specific to my car that you dont care much about
)
anyway, just some thoughts, and something you have probably thought of already
Evan
the challenges have been allowing for the slack required for full lock to lock, and the rubbing issues with it. (and well some other stuff specific to my car that you dont care much about
)anyway, just some thoughts, and something you have probably thought of already
Evan
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Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (ITACivic)
John, Are you directing the air to the caliper or the rotor?
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Re: I love duct tape and zip ties - Brake ducting round 1 (johng)
I'm looking at doing a similar project before I attempt Laguna in Feb.
Johng are you and Zach going to be attending?
Props on the DIY
Johng are you and Zach going to be attending?
Props on the DIY
