Hey everyone.. Not a frequent HTer but i could use some knowledge if anyone could throw down some advice.

Build:
Full GSR top/bottom
B16 trans w/lsd
pnp head
Crower valvetrain
buddy club spec5 cams
skunk2 camgears
type r valves

2.0L w/ golden eagle sleeves
12.5:1 comp JE
ARP studs
eagle rods

MSD dig 6
MSD blaster coil
MSD dist.

Chrome

Did a full dyno tune last week and didnt put down what i was hoping. Air/fuel was perfect. Curve looked nice just didnt want to go past 8500 tho and numbers werent what was expected..

I think the number were around..
187whp
126ft/lbs

Anyone have this happen? Maybe MSD? Valvesprings replaced? ideas?

 

The first thing you need to do is verify that the motor is healthy. This entails a compression test, and a leakdown test if you have access to a tester. Get back to us with the results and we will be able to help you further.

Also, what did you use for an exhaust setup, what kind of dyno was this on, and did you move the cam gears around?

 

Ive heard of those MSD's causing more harm than good on alot of setups.
After the compression test and leakage tests are performed and everything checks out, Id remove the MSD and see if that helps any...
Good luck!

 

Damn doesnt sound right bro. I made 189whp with 1.8l gsr motor with stock sleeves and stage 2 cams, with non ported head

 

combustion brought up some good points...what header and exhaust are u running???...also did u degree the cams??...timing??...cam gears??...those numbers are real low...what bore is the motor running???...i guess as stated make sure the motor is healthy and firing on all 4 first and then take it from there...whose tuning the car???...if u posted up a graph too it might help

 

I would also do a compression and leakdown test like "combustion" said. Also who ported the head and who assembled the motor. With that size motor I would hope for at LEAST 220whp. I have consistantly seen 2L motors with the BC5 cams make 240+

 

comp test and leak down test.

and if u dont mind me asking who did ur tune and where is your map? that would be a really good thing for us to take a look at. see what ur afr is like.

if u dont mind me asking why did u go with an msd box? and why the digital 6 and not the digital 7?

 

what kind of dyno, what kind of header, what kind of exhaust
POST A DYNO SHEET

 

Those numbers do seem real low...my buddy made 181 on a stock bottom end itr motor only mods are stage 2 skunks and a skunk2 im.....check the compression and fill us in on the header exhaust setup

 

Compression 'should' be fine across the board, though i have not checked yet. Brand new build, new gaskets/seals etc all OEM. 84mm. New head with fresh PnP, fresh bore on block, new pistons/rings. AFR was perfect. plugs gapped down to around 35 i think.

Header is not the best but shouldnt cause this much loss in whp in my eyes, JG edelbrock with 3" collector on a 3" elect. cutout into 2 1/4" straight piping to a shitty twinloop muffler(planning on replacing). Tuned with cutout closed.

Built and tuned at Import Specialties in Tacoma. Im bringing it back in a couple days to drop fluids and check possible valve floating. Cam gears were adjusted. Timing good.

Tuned with dynojet.

Ill be back on after we drop fluids and hopefully narrow down possibilities. Any other ideas let me know.. Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Tuned with cutout closed.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is definitely part of the problem.

 

That is definitely part of the problem. [/QUOTE]

Yes, however not going to lose 30-50whp from it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, however not going to lose 30-50whp from it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

The difference in area from a 3in to 2.25in diameter is more than 50%

Yeah, I believe that. This motor probably can produce about 115 to 120 whp/L which is about 230 to 240 whp. Because you are trying to force air thru a straw, you got two things working against you, high back pressure and a lot of residual gas. The 1st is a direct parasitic loss (mechanical pumping), the 2nd is loss is reduction in thermo-chemical efficiency.

Just to prove a point, try using the e-cut but make sure your AFs don't go above 14. I guarentee your motor is going to try to lean out, big time, but it will definitely have alot more power.

 

the same thing happen to my friend .. he had a b20b arias 84.5mm , b16a head mildly ported , crower 403 70mm Tbody ..4-1 custom headers . mid pipe (emanage obd0) . the a/f is gud .. the engine pulled 144trq .. 188hp .is this normal .. but i notice that guy tunning it set the vtec point to only 4700 rpm way to low to crowers spec @ 6000 up ..

 

who was the pnp done by?? this does make a big effect too. i seen a pnp that made barely 200whp, then the stock head was put on, it made 230whp. too bad i dont have the dyno graphs to prove it

 

I am not sure if the Crower valve train will work with BC5 cams. The BC5's are larger than Crower VTEC cams. Maybe just another mix& match that does not work. And it is not BC's fault or Crowers, just yours.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Compression 'should' be fine across the board, though i have not checked yet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is my favorite part.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is my favorite part. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Brand new build, new gaskets/seals etc all OEM. fresh bore on block, new pistons/rings.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Low compression in two adjacent cylinders typically means you have a bad head gasket. Low compression in all cylinders would tell you the rings and cylinders are worn and the engine needs rebuild. The reason i quoted 'should' be fine is because all my components are 'New'.

Moving past this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not sure if the Crower valve train will work with BC5 cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This was one of my concerns with the build. However i thought the smartest thing would be to try the build as it is now since i already had the valve train from before i purchased the larger cams. It is a possibility that mix matching brands wont work but im trying to rule out all other possibilities of defects first before i look here.

 

So when you checked the coil-bind numbers with Crower valve train they were OK with the BD5's? Was the open spring pressure a good match?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Low compression in two adjacent cylinders typically means you have a bad head gasket. Low compression in all cylinders would tell you the rings and cylinders are worn and the engine needs rebuild. The reason i quoted 'should' be fine is because all my components are 'New'.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im glad you have a working knowledge of how to evaluate compression test results. However, all this knowledge does nothing if you dont actually perform the test on your motor. I would personally do a compression test on the motor to verify it is healthy after experiencing disappointing power output before i posted about it on HT.

Moving past this...

 

1. Low tq for 2L. Need to check camshaft centerlines FTMW.

2. Leak it down.

3. Check for dyno graph. If power curve is jagged, spark may be weak for some reason or ignition timing insufficient.

 

i would say make sure cams are degreed, and check those springs , i am pretty sure they are not good with bc5's, are the crowers springs used?? i had issues a while back my crowers lost spring pressure, and then the motor lost power

 

So, you think the valves are floating?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CCD-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Low compression in two adjacent cylinders typically means you have a bad head gasket. Low compression in all cylinders would tell you the rings and cylinders are worn and the engine needs rebuild. The reason i quoted 'should' be fine is because all my components are 'New'.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


You forget that things could have happened to your engine since it was put together. Not sure who did your head work but if it was done improperly, you could be getting a lot of leak around the valves. Also if your valvetrain is a bad match for your cams, things could have happened and you might be getting bad valve sealing. This would have a major impact on the power you're making.

Some very experienced people on this board are telling you to have a compression test and leak down test done for a reason. Listen to them and stop assuming anything.

 

I would like to know who did the head