Question: Is the AP2 header different from the AP1 header? Some have claimed that the AP2 header gives more hp because it is different from the AP1 header...visibly different so I've been told.

Well, I was testing out a Megan header on an AP2 (Thanks Mase and Stage6 for the dyno time)...more on that later, but suffice to say, Megan is not the header for an otherwise stock AP2. With a tp and exhaust things might change, and we may have another test with that in the future.

But this gave me an opportunity to closely compare an AP2 header to an AP1.

I'll post a couple pics here, and the rest can be seen at:

http://www.flickr.com/gp/84825082@N00/073349

After measuring, I found all dimensions exactly the same. In looking at the design, I couldn't detect any difference in bends or the way the header flows.

Verdict: BUSTED

Header on the right is the AP2


Top header is AP2

 

good information for a busted myth

 

Thanks for the info. Quick question. What diameter pipe is the bottom of the header where it connects into the cat?

 

I was told that the AP2 primeries are supposed to be a little bigger than the AP1 header.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was told that the AP2 primeries are supposed to be a little bigger than the AP1 header.</TD></TR></TABLE>

aparently not...

the pics of the primary and secondaries pretty much confirm that they, indeed are identical

 

Busted!

 

55mm

http://farm3.static.flickr.com...b.jpg

 

you are entirely incorrect. You can even tell in the picture that the ap2 has wider tubing. that's why here is no gap between the '2 tube' section in the ap2 and there clearly is in the ap1. i have an ap2 header on my 00 s2k and i immediately felt the power increase and then the dyno charts proved the power increase.

for the money, the ap2 header is a great upgrade for 2.0ltr s2k. i bought mine for around 100$ its obviously oem quality and generates almost as much extra power as the TODA header for the ap1.
*this is why the toda header doesn't produce close to the same increase on ap2's as it does on ap1 s2000s.* (dyno proven)

you in no way busted this myth. when did you dyno the car with the two different headers? yes, the headers look similar, but not identical.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aludew5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are entirely incorrect. You can even tell in the picture that the ap2 has wider tubing. that's why here is no gap between the '2 tube' section in the ap2 and there clearly is in the ap1. i have an ap2 header on my 00 s2k and i immediately felt the power increase and then the dyno charts proved the power increase.

for the money, the ap2 header is a great upgrade for 2.0ltr s2k. i bought mine for around 100$ its obviously oem quality and generates almost as much extra power as the TODA header for the ap1.
*this is why the toda header doesn't produce close to the same increase on ap2's as it does on ap1 s2000s.* (dyno proven)

you in no way busted this myth. when did you dyno the car with the two different headers? yes, the headers look similar, but not identical. </TD></TR></TABLE>

even so,if there are any gains at all there is not point in switching to a AP2 header anyways. so its really a no brainer Aftermarket header

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MessGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

even so,if there are any gains at all there is not point in switching to a AP2 header anyways. so its really a no brainer Aftermarket header </TD></TR></TABLE>

what I read was he put on an AP2 header, his butt dyno and shop dyno told him he just made an increase in power, how is it not worth it especially for $100
you might make more with an aftermarket header, but your going to pay 5 to 10 times as much

I'd like to see the graphs though
edit: I do see a difference but they're pictures so it hard to tell, it's hard to notice a few mm's or a few degrees in a different direction

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SkimN &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what I read was he put on an AP2 header, his butt dyno and shop dyno told him he just made an increase in power, how is it not worth it especially for $100
you might make more with an aftermarket header, but your going to pay 5 to 10 times as much

I'd like to see the graphs though
edit: I do see a difference but they're pictures so it hard to tell, it's hard to notice a few mm's or a few degrees in a different direction</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea, dynosheets have been on ht a couple times... i will find them for you later if you want. i think it was the s2000 forum about 2 months ago. and everyone talked crap about saying that the ap1 and ap2 headers were the same in that thread, too. lol

my car: ap1 with ap2 header, test pipe, vafc tune= 22 Whp increase over stock ap1 on mustang dyno.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MessGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

even so,if there are any gains at all there is not point in switching to a AP2 header anyways. so its really a no brainer Aftermarket header </TD></TR></TABLE>

what ??

and not all aftermarket headers even make any power to speak of. just because something is 'aftermarket' doesn't mean squat if it's not better than an oem alternative- especailly for the money. thats like saying since you can buy aftermarket suspension on ebay you should get a set of 300 coilovers for ur s2000 because it's aftermarket .

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aludew5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you are entirely incorrect. You can even tell in the picture that the ap2 has wider tubing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well...did you look at the other pics?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8...45058

I put a caliper on each primary, both inner and outer diameter. Pics show the measurements quite clearly. They are the same.

Also measured the primary collector and the secondary collector...all the same...see the pics.


Modified by negcamber at 8:13 PM 2/10/2008

 

It doesn't appear that you measured the main part that is different. The straight section of the secondaries in between the two heatshield mounting tabs. They are quite definitely different as has been shown time and time again on a number of different dynos

 

who gives a ****..

 

just for fun and to point out that they are different. and to also illustrate that you have a garage door. lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aludew5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

just for fun and to point out that they are different. and to also illustrate that you have a garage door. lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

please tell me your joking

your telling me... that his measurements of the headers, which are LITTERALLY the same, in every aspect that he measured them....ARE WRONG, because the AP2 header APPEARS fatter from a different camera angle???!?

no, your right... it must have been in that magical center area that made all the difference...never mind that the rest is identical.

i mean... I would hate to come off rude, but...


ARE YOU A ******* RETARD???

you do realize that in the first picture he posted, the ap2 LOOKS LIKE it has a larger gap....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It doesn't appear that you measured the main part that is different. The straight section of the secondaries in between the two heatshield mounting tabs. They are quite definitely different as has been shown time and time again on a number of different dynos</TD></TR></TABLE>

rofl. time and time again...sounds like dyno error to me.

he did measure it... and it was... (shock) identical.

did you even look at the rest of his pictures?


I guess what is most irritating between the two of you... is all you have is... "oh i have an ap2 header, and i totally can feel the difference" or "omg i totally saw this one thread on s2ki about it so it must be true"

get some facts to back up what you are saying please so we could at least make this an interesting discussion, or seriously STFU and GTFO

 

Not basing anything off his pictures. We also measured and that area is larger. Sorry buddy. Didn't take pics, because frankly.....didnt' care. believe what you will. I know what's different.

Here are a few dyno plots, not that it'll make you wise up. Keep in mind these are a Mustang Dyno. Not a crap dynojet.

baseline here is a completely stock 01 S2000



Same dyno different day. 00 S2000 with only changes being the AP2 header and test pipe before and after are before and after tuning.



The second (test) plot on the first picture is with the Toda header, t1r test pipe, and t1r exhaust.

Oh, for the heck of it. Here is the plot for the 01 with the Toda header only vs. stock.

 

I've held and ap1 and an ap2 in my own hands and seen and felt the differences. and i've seen the numbers on the dyno, and felt them when i drove it. there was no dyno error and the readings were from the same dyno. how about the headers are also different part numbers. and how about they are clearly DIFFERENT in the picture? (as you also pointed out) I never backed anything up with 'omg i saw it on s2ki' so what are you talking about kid?

what other proof can i possibly show? i offer all of that to save someone some $$ when making some power you hit me with ur gay little STFU and GTFO acro? i thought this forum was to share information and to help people out.

you make honda-tech an awsome place

i guess i'm a '*******' retard... if only i were clever enough to always spell cuss words wrong on purpose to show how big of a bada$$ i was on the internet then maybe then i'd know that the headers are the same

give me a break. I'll just pretend like you were having a really bad day and didn't mean to come across like a complete tool.

lol

 

Dang yo face got graphted!!

 

good info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Erik95LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not basing anything off his pictures. We also measured and that area is larger. Sorry buddy. Didn't take pics, because frankly.....didnt' care. believe what you will. I know what's different.

Here are a few dyno plots, not that it'll make you wise up. Keep in mind these are a Mustang Dyno. Not a crap dynojet.

baseline here is a completely stock 01 S2000



Same dyno different day. 00 S2000 with only changes being the AP2 header and test pipe before and after are before and after tuning.



The second (test) plot on the first picture is with the Toda header, t1r test pipe, and t1r exhaust.

Oh, for the heck of it. Here is the plot for the 01 with the Toda header only vs. stock.




</TD></TR></TABLE>

wtf?

are you serious? how is this helpful?!?!

there is no constent in this data. you not only changed out your header, but added a tp and ontop of that, A TUNE, correct? this is utterly useless in comparing the 2 headers.

PLUS, you have two different S2000s' data you are using. and all i think you have shown me, is not to waste my money on a TODA header.

like i said, please get some USEFUL data that will back up YOUR claim, and i will promise to stop acting like a tool, but please, quit acting like a retard

 

I would say these pictures pretty much would say your a retard and a liar then...dont yell at me...look at the pictures dude.

did you have a tp and a tune before your dyno as well??? cause i would say SUSPICIOUS that you made 20whp over stock with an ap2 header, even IF it was different.

because a different part number obviously means a completly redesign...

reading comprehension ftw

they are clearly NOT different in the picture as i pointed out. you tried and point out that in the SECOND PICTURE negcamber posted, the ap2 header was OBVIOUSLY different, because you couldn't see a gap between the flanges and the primaries in the "fattest" part of the tubing. Then i quickly pointed out how STUPID that idea was, because in the FIRST PICURE neg camber posted, the lighting makes the AP1 HEADER appear larger in that area.

how about a freaking dyno plot where the only thing changed was the AP2 header AND NOTHING ELSE! and save money?? how the hell is it saving money, when ITS THE SAME HEADER! if that was true, then you wouldnt only be WASTING MONEY, you would be just spreading the disease known as ignorance, (which, in your case, seem to have acquired a fatal level of), via the internet.

thanks, I think so too

blah blah blah, save your semantic bullshit and stick to the argument at hand buddy.


Look, i'm not saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE for the AP2 header to be better, and make more power. all i'm saying is that the argument you just made has wayy to many holes in it, and is really bullshit for the most part, because you have no consistent data to back up your claim. I'm tired of seeing these same ******* tools on h-t and s2ki saying that this makes hp...this doesnt...blah blah blah because its a RUMOR. and no one makes a reasonable thread on why or why not its true.

also, correct me if im wrong, negcamber stated that he had spent some time with the headers at the dyno, and thanked stage6 and mase for helping him out...


Modified by Techno Tonis at 6:43 AM 2/11/2008


Modified by Techno Tonis at 6:45 AM 2/11/2008

 

AP1 Header = 18100-PCX-000
AP2 Header = 18100-PCX-010

If they where the same they would also be the same part number....
/ thread

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Under_Pressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AP1 Header = 18100-PCX-000
AP2 Header = 18100-PCX-010

If they where the same they would also be the same part number....
/ thread</TD></TR></TABLE>

maybe they changed one small thing, like flange bolt size.

seriously, regardless if the AP2 header is different, some you guys are making some pretty unintelligent assumptions...


Modified by Techno Tonis at 12:12 PM 2/11/2008