Hi there...

I have a 06 Mazda3 2.3L (Yes i know a non honda but the FWD application still applies)....and have curious question about front and rear swayabars..

now what my question is, would running a front sway bar that is 6mm less then the rear would cause to much oversteer for the street?

(Front would be 26mm + Rear would be 32mm )

my current suspension setup is Mazda3 struts on all 4 corners + Tanabe Lowering springs (est. 1.5 drop front and 1.1 rear), generic rear lower tie bar, tires are 215/45/17 + 15mm rear spacer

so would this be okay to run onto the streets?

thanks for your help

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EL-Driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hi there...

I have a 06 Mazda3 2.3L (Yes i know a non honda but the FWD application still applies)....and have curious question about front and rear swayabars..

now what my question is, would running a front sway bar that is 6mm less then the rear would cause to much oversteer for the street?

(Front would be 26mm + Rear would be 32mm )

my current suspension setup is Mazda3 struts on all 4 corners + Tanabe Lowering springs (est. 1.5 drop front and 1.1 rear), generic rear lower tie bar, tires are 215/45/17 + 15mm rear spacer

so would this be okay to run onto the streets?

thanks for your help</TD></TR></TABLE>
It depends on the vehicle and the bar. Nobody can tell you "X mm bar will be safe and Y mm bar will not." The increase in wheel rate depends not only on diameter, but also wall thickness (for a hollow bar), arm length, suspension type, and some other factors. I personally haven't tested any Mazda3 sway bars, so I couldn't tell you how a given size will feel.

And as far as "too much oversteer," nobody can tell you whether or not you can personally handle it. Everyone's abilities and preferences are different. "Too loose" for you may be "not loose enough" for someone else.

My guess is that it won't be a big deal at all, but again I'm no expert on Mazda3 sway bars.

Why do you need a 32mm rear sway bar just to drive around on the street anyway? That seems pointless. You don't win a trophy for being the Morning Commute National Champion.

 

how big are the stock mazda3 sway bars?

 

It will also depend if the bars are solid or hollow.

Just a word of warning. I had an Eibach 17mm sway bar on the rear of my 98 DX Coupe. The over steer was controllable but it was very unpredictable. In fact, it scared the crap out of me several times.

It shouldn't play too much of a roll on your car though. Just dont drive like and *** hat and you'll be fine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmztrane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It will also depend if the bars are solid or hollow.

Just a word of warning. I had an Eibach 17mm sway bar on the rear of my 98 DX Coupe. The over steer was controllable but it was very unpredictable. In fact, it scared the crap out of me several times.

It shouldn't play too much of a roll on your car though. Just dont drive like and *** hat and you'll be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what kind of suspension were you ^ running ???? the dx never came with any sort of front sway, that could of been the problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bmoua &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what kind of suspension were you ^ running ???? the dx never came with any sort of front sway, that could of been the problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah I know it never came with a front sway. Thats what I was saying. A huge difference in size from front to rear will create a larger amount of over steer. In my case of not having one, it made a huge difference. He shouldn't have too much of a problem with a decent sized front sway.

With my car not having a front bar, it created no compensation in the front and made the rear bar worthless because it was unsafe and next to impossible to predict.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmztrane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">With my car not having a front bar, it created no compensation in the front and made the rear bar worthless because it was unsafe and next to impossible to predict.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the handling was "unpredictable," then you either had some other issue going on, or were not paying close enough attention to the inputs you were making. A large rear sway bar will make a car handle loose but not erratically unless it is binding.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EL-Driver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(Front would be 26mm + Rear would be 32mm )
so would this be okay to run onto the streets? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Even if the bar is hollow, 32mm would be a huge rear ARB, and exremely stiff. I'd expect it to add very considerably to single wheel bump and droop stiffness and make the ride quite harsh. Maybe OK on the track, but even then I suspect it would be excessive. On the road it could even be dangerous, more so when hitting bumps mid corner, I wouldn't fit it in a pink fit.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If the handling was "unpredictable," then you either had some other issue going on, or were not paying close enough attention to the inputs you were making. A large rear sway bar will make a car handle loose but not erratically unless it is binding.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you ever driven in a car with just a rear sway bar and nothing up front? This was also with stiffer rear springs than front, greater negative rear camber, as well as stiffer strut settings. All characteristics of making over steer greater. I've only lost control on a semi wet road where the car started to slide on wet, went to dry and hooked and then back to wet which sent me into a 180* spin.

Not trying to come across as an ***. Just saying that yes, it indeed can be unpredictable. This was driving on a windy road that I was rather familiar with, but because of the change in normal driving conditions, I wasn't prepared for the changes in direction the car made.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmztrane &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Have you ever driven in a car with just a rear sway bar and nothing up front?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This was also with stiffer rear springs than front, greater negative rear camber, as well as stiffer strut settings. All characteristics of making over steer greater.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Camber set more negative in the rear will generally reduce a tendency to oversteer.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've only lost control on a semi wet road where the car started to slide on wet, went to dry and hooked and then back to wet which sent me into a 180* spin.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And obviously you were driving at a level far exceeding what you should have been doing on a public street. Luckily no innocent bystanders were injured or killed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not trying to come across as an ***. Just saying that yes, it indeed can be unpredictable. This was driving on a windy road that I was rather familiar with, but because of the change in normal driving conditions, I wasn't prepared for the changes in direction the car made. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Just because you weren't prepared doesn't make the car unpredictable; the two are not necessarily equivalents. You obviously didn't make the correct inputs or react in the proper fashion (no, that's not a jab, it's the truth - sit back and think about it). When you know your setup is biased to oversteer, you have to adjust your driving accordingly and know ahead of time how your inputs will affect the car's attitude. Based on what you've described, I can predict right now, without even driving it, that the car is going to spin easily with a minor lift off the throttle mid-corner if you're not ready to immediately get back into it and countersteer. Once you commit to a turn at the limit in a loose FWD car (let alone any car), there is no turning back. You must be deliberate.

This forum isn't dedicated to discussing driving technique, but I'm starting to see a trend of posts pointing fingers at the equipment when the real fault of a situation is the driver. No amount of money spent on parts will cure a ham fist. I learned this a long time ago when I sucked at driving - not that I still don't, but now I suck less. When a driver is first introduced to a very loose car, I know firsthand that it can get pretty sketchy. An experienced driver will be used to it and know what inputs to make.

"Unpredictable" is the wrong word to use. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if a more accurate term was chosen. "Sensitive"? Perhaps an understatement.