I've started thinking of doing a few small things with a 97 Civic DX MTX, but I'm not quite sure which upgrades I'd want to go with. The point is to keep this car as daily driver and smooth riding as possible.

After doing some thinking, I came to the conclusion that there really weren't any engine upgrades I could do to the car without dropping down the gas mileage besides obviously the normal tune-up items. I would like to put an aftermarket exhaust on the car, but not sure how much bearing this would have on the gas mileage. I was thinking of doing a different intake setup, but read that it usually lowers your low end slightly but gains on the top end, which isn't what I need for a daily driver. Are there any engine upgrades that can be done without lowering gas mileage or reliability?

Next I was starting to think suspension upgrades, but pretty much came to the same conclusion. Obviously aftermarket springs and struts aren't going to ride as smoothly as the stock ones. The only things I could really think of doing that wouldn't have a huge effect would be strut tower bars. A polyurethane bushing kit would probably stiffen up the car too much to the point my girlfriend may not like driving it. Are there any suspension upgrades to be done without sacrificing ride quality?

 

Your regular "bolt-on's" won't hurt your gas mileage...when my Civic was a stock automatic D-series I had an AEM short-ram intake and 2.25" cat-back exhaust on it, neither of those effected the gas mileage or reliability in a negative way.

And you're right about the suspension...you won't be able to upgrade it in any way without making it stiffer. You could do the strut tower bars, but that'd be a waste of money IMO. You might look into a rear sway bar/reinforcement kit and a stock front swaybar, if your car doesn't have one already.

 

Yea, I kinda figured that's how it was gonna be with the suspension. I know I can't do springs, struts, or bushings, without making the car ride too stiff, so those are out. The only things I could really do are sway bars and strut tower bars. I remember looking and not seeing a front or rear sway bar. Do the DX Civics even have front or rear sway bars?

Yea, I know the regular mods really shouldn't hurt things, but anything internal isn't going to help out gas mileage. Like I said, I was thinking of doing a different intake, but read that you lose some power down low to gain at the top end, which the car is very rarely ever redlined, so there isn't sense for an intake. I wouldn't mind doing a header, high-flow cat, and cat-back exhaust, but wasn't sure if it might hurt power down low.

 

I have a high-flow cat on my car, which is OBDI, and it helped the exhaust tone out a good bit (was running a test pipe prior to that), but the thing you'll need to look into is if the high-flow cat will throw a CEL because yours is OBDII.

I know that my '94 DX didn't come with a front or rear sway bar, but luckily I had a '93 EX for a parts car and swapped over the whole front assembly, but I haven't had the funds to get a rear one yet.

 

Yea, that's the only thing I was wondering if maybe the high flow cat would cause a CEL. I guess I'm pretty well sold out for engine mods since there's nothing I can do that won't hurt me reliability or gas mileage wise. Guess I'll just stick to the tune-up items.

I should have figured the DX didn't come with the front or rear sway bars. I wonder what it would require to put front and rear sway bars on the car. I can't remember if the sway bar links bolt to the steering knuckles or the control arm. Anyone know what it would take to put front and rear sway bars on the car?

 

I'm pretty sure that the front swaybar bolts to the lower control arms...you could probably find some of the stock used ones off of an EX or Si from a junkyard or eBay or something like that.

As for the rear, you could get aftermarket LCA's, a reinforcement brace (to prevent subframe tearout), and a swaybar.

 

The D16Y7 is hopeless. Sorry lol. If you still wanna mod the motor, though, I might suggest an automatic D16Y8 manifold, a CAI for an EX (you'll have to get a 3.5'' holesaw to saw out the pre-embossed panel for your intake), a header for an EX or FROM an EX, and a cat from an EX or Si or universal highflow cat that's of GOOD QUALITY so your CEL wont come on. After doing all this, you'll probably have gained around 10-15hp or so.

The best bang for your buck is going to be tossing the HORRIBLE trans out of the car. The y7 trans sucks more than the motor. Use a 92-95 Si trans for best results. Other noteworthy transmissions would be from a 92-00 EX. The EX transmissions will offer more relaxed cruising speeds. Although, you shouldn't notice any difference in gas mileage even with the Si trans. Maybe like 1mpg or something.

As far as suspension goes, I've been very impressed at the ride quality and handling balance of ground control's OTS (off the shelf) springs. Use with either stock dampers (if you're not going much lower than 1''), or some mild performance dampers. Koni yellows are of excellent quality, but also cost more than others and may be overkill in your situation. The Tokico blues are actually decent for the price and perfect for a mildly lowered daily driver.

Swaybars wont affect ride quality very negatively. Some CTR/ITR peices will be nice. You can also go with a milder setup from like suspension techniques or something. You will need a subframe reinforcement in the back unless you want your subframe to extract itself from the car. Anything over the diameter of like a stock GSR or Si rear bar, and a subframe brace is a MUST. If you want the CTR/99-00Si front bar (26mm), you must get either CTR or Si lower control arms.
I'm sure you can get an aftermarket bar designed to work with the non Si/CTR LCAs.

Stay the freak away from polyurethane bushings unless you want to drive a skateboard.

Get an alignment after suspension mods. You dont need a camber kit unless you lower the car by like 5 inches or something. Just get the toe fixed, and as long as you're not doing burn outs, you will only see very very very very minimal uneven tire wear. Very minimal. Like a 1/32'' tread depth difference from outside to inside edges, typically.

 

I know the D16Y7 is hopeless performance wise, but that's not the point of the car if you hadn't noticed yet. This car is a daily driver that's going for the best gas mileage and reliability, not power and speed.

Like I said, the reason I didn't get a CAI setup is because I don't want to lose low-end power to gain top-end power because the car very rarely sees high RPM's. There's no reason to swap the intake manifold unless it'll get me better gas mileage. I'm not so sure if I'm even going to put an aftermarket exhaust on the car because my girlfriend isn't yet sure about putting one on it.

Obviously I know the trans in the car now isn't made to handle power, but it is geared to get good gas mileage. I don't want a shorter geared transmission because I know for a fact it'll be getting less gas mileage. I know this from experience because my friend swapped a ITR transmission into his GSR and was running higher RPMs at cruising speeds. I won't be changing the trans for more power only to lose gas mileage.

I'll agree with you, Ground Control coil-overs and Koni Yellows are the way to go. That's what I'll be going with on my Accord. The thing is though they'll make the car ride stiffer, and that's something my girlfriend won't want. How the hell does the subframe tear itself out of the car and what does the subframe brace actually do? It seems like it's going to be a bigger pain in the *** than I thought to put even EX sway bars on the car. Sounds like to put them on I need the LCA's, sway bar links, sway bar brackets and bushings, and the sway bar itself. I might be able to score these out of the junkyard but then again it's something I might just pass on.

I know about using a camber kit and getting an alignment. I guess I should have mentioned that I'm not a complete moron about working on cars. I'm actually an auto technician currently working at a Chrysler/Jeep/Kia dealership, so I do know the basics and some of the advanced stuff.

 

any adjustable aftermarket shock will give you a better ride then your stock units...well any reputable one will.

 

Lower geared transmissions do not always reduce gas mileage. Since you'll be using a lot less throttle to get going because of the lower gears, you might save a little gas in the city. The highway mileage is BARELY affected at all.

For example:

GSR gas mileage: 25/31
LS gas mileage: 25/31
ITR: 25/30. This is for a 2000 ITR. The one with the bigger cams. Either way, the ITR has bigger cams than the GSR/LS, but especially the 00-01 model. But, even so, as you can see....trans gearing does very little for gas mileage. *In the stock honda world. As long as you're driving at REALISTIC highway speeds, gearing makes very little difference. I feel that TYPICAL realistic speeds are around 65-75. Since there is a HUGE difference between the Z6 trans and the Y7 trans, you MAY notice like a 1-2mpg drop in highway gas mileage. If you can't accept that, I understand. I'm just making a point.

You may see a drop in gas mileage if you travel at speeds of 80+ on the highway, though. I go 70-80. Never noticed a change from when I had a DX trans on my D16Z6 to when I had a Si trans on my D16Z6.

Never noticed a diff. between my GSR or my EM1 gas mileage wise. They were both around 27-30+.

I only speak from experience.


Opening up the exhaust side a little will most likely INCREASE your gas mileage. But you dont want your GF riding around looking like some ricer. So leave it stock.

You wont have subframe issues with EX bars....especially since the EX doesn't come with a rear bar. You can put an Si rear bar on the DX without a subframe brace. The front bars dont need the brace. When you go to the junkyard, find an EX, and take all the hardware and links and everything for the front bar. The EX bar will bolt right onto the DX without any mods. You might wanna get a tap for the bracket holes on your DX, though. They usually rust from the inside. Clean them out, or there's a chance you will snap your 12mm bolt inside there.

If you can find an Si with a rear bar, take it as well. Good luck taking out the links, though. Bring a propane torch with you. Dont break them. They're delicate and expensive.

You need a REAR subframe brace for the car when you go to ITR/CTR or bigger sized REAR bars.

I shouldn't have said "subframe extract itself from the car". It's more like the swaybar mounting points will extract themselves from the subframe. Basically, you will TEAR the sheet metal if this happens.

You do not need rear LCAs to put on a swaybar for a 97 civic. All 96+ LCAs come with a swaybar hole.

The OTS spring rates for the GCs for civics dont make the car much stiffer.

You can also use Tein H techs. They drop the car about 1''-1.5'', and only raise the spring rate VERY VERY incrementally. So they should ride just like stock.

They're around $150 on ebay. No need for aftermarket dampers.

Modified by B serious at 7:21 PM 2/4/2008


Modified by B serious at 7:26 PM 2/4/2008


Modified by B serious at 7:28 PM 2/4/2008

 

I understand your point in all of this and it does make sense. Basically above all else I'm looking for gas mileage, then reliability, then performance. If there was I transaxle I could put into the car that would get it better gas mileage I'd consider it, but from what I see the stock transaxle is probably going to be the best bet. Thanks for your input on the situation though.

See, I was thinking that about the exhaust too. I figured opening it up would help gas mileage. Basically exhausts are made in the mindframe to reduce noise, not increase performance. But yea, I agree. I don't really want the car to be loud because all of the stupid kids in town would try racing her and all that crap, not to mention I'm not sure she's set on putting an aftermarket setup on the car.

So basically my options for bars are a EX front and a Si rear. The put the EX front bar on I'll need the LCA's, bushings and brackets, links, and the sway bar itself. To put on the Si rear bar I'd just need the links, brackets and bushigns, and then the bar. I'm pretty sure I won't go CTR/ITR or bigger bars since they'd be overkill in this case. I just figured I could put on a front bar at least for a little more stability since most cars come with at least a front sway bar. Is the Si front the same size as the EX front?

I'll probably end up sticking with the stock springs and struts because I'm pretty sure making the suspension any stiffer isn't going to sit well with the girlfriend. After going from her Mustang which had a fully built track suspension to the Civic she doesn't want to go back to anything even remotely stiff.

Thanks for all your help so far in figuring this stuff out. I just wanted to get all this done before spring starts and I start working more on my Accord. At least I've got the engine and suspension pretty well figured out.

 

skunk2 coilovers and tikico shocks

 

okay I don't really know why u posted? It seems to me you don't want to do anything. Simple bolt ons actually improve your gas mileage if you would have done your research. why don't you leave your car stock before your girl gets mad and puts more whip marks on your back!!!!!!!!!!!


I just had to say it. LOL


Modified by spivt11 at 6:05 AM 2/5/2008

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VXHatchdriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">skunk2 coilovers and tikico shocks </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I'm sure that would ride better than stock.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spivt11 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">okay I don't really know why u posted? It seems to me you don't want to do anything. Simple bolt ons actually improve your gas mileage if you would have done your research. why don't you leave your car stock before your girl gets mad and puts more whip marks on your back!!!!!!!!!!!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bolt-on's...don't really do much of anything without having the car tuned for them. I know that I'm running basic bolt-on's on my GS-R'd Civic, but it wasn't until after I got a chipped/tuned ECU that I noticed a difference....and that difference was in power AND fuel economy. Plus, he seems pretty interested in a decent suspension set-up.

 

Why not some ITR springs and Koni Yellow's... I had this before and loved it.
Just slightly lower and the adjustability of the set-up serves well depending on who is driving and how they feel.

Good compromise in ride quality and performance imo.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A_Rotary_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So basically my options for bars are a EX front and a Si rear. The put the EX front bar on I'll need the LCA's, bushings and brackets, links, and the sway bar itself. To put on the Si rear bar I'd just need the links, brackets and bushigns, and then the bar. I'm pretty sure I won't go CTR/ITR or bigger bars since they'd be overkill in this case. I just figured I could put on a front bar at least for a little more stability since most cars come with at least a front sway bar. Is the Si front the same size as the EX front?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you use the EX front bar, I dont think you dont need the EX LCAs. The DX LCAs should have provisions for the swaybar links, IIRC. But I could be wrong. Check under your car for holes in the LCAs. Come to think of it...i'm only like 50/50 on this lol. It's been a while since I've been under a DX.

The Si front is the same size as the CTR front. You WILL MOST SURELY need Si LCAs, links, brackets, and an Si shock fork if you want the Si FRONT bar. It's a 26mm bar. Too big unless you run a CTR/ITR rear bar with a subframe brace.

The Si REAR bar camoflauges itself as a brake line lol. It's not so big. But it will still add some anti roll properties.

 

Thanks for your input on this everyone, it's helped me a lot in figuring things out.

Engine and trans wise it sounds like I'm pretty set. There's nothing I could really do besides an exhaust to increase gas mileage since any other mods are either going to drop reliability or gas mileage.

Suspension wise it looks like the only things I can really do without stiffening the suspension would be sway bars and strut tower bars. I'll probably go with the EX front sway bar so I don't have to swap LCA's and then use the Si rear sway bar because it bolts right up. What year EX and what year Si would I need to steal the parts off to make them work with my car? Do you think it'll cause any problems to run an EX front and a Si rear?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A_Rotary_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for your input on this everyone, it's helped me a lot in figuring things out.

Engine and trans wise it sounds like I'm pretty set. There's nothing I could really do besides an exhaust to increase gas mileage since any other mods are either going to drop reliability or gas mileage.

Suspension wise it looks like the only things I can really do without stiffening the suspension would be sway bars and strut tower bars. I'll probably go with the EX front sway bar so I don't have to swap LCA's and then use the Si rear sway bar because it bolts right up. What year EX and what year Si would I need to steal the parts off to make them work with my car? Do you think it'll cause any problems to run an EX front and a Si rear?</TD></TR></TABLE>

96-00. no problems.

 

Alrighty, thanks for the info. Can you recommend any specific brand for strut tower bars?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A_Rotary_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alrighty, thanks for the info. Can you recommend any specific brand for strut tower bars?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless you're getting a 3 point, a Kung Fu racing EBAY bar will work just as well as a $500 cusco bar.

Password JDM and Carbing make 3 point bars. There may be other manufacturers as well. These parts are usually expensive, however.

 

I always thought Cusco made a 3 point racing bar? I'm not looking to spend a ton on one, but I did find a really nice Cusco one for my Accord for 150 shipped. I guess I'll just have to do some searching around for one. I got few more questions though. Is the rear strut tower bar going to cut down on trunk space or does it sit high enough that it's not a problem? Do they make any exhausts for a Civic that aren't rediculously loud or insanely expensive?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A_Rotary_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always thought Cusco made a 3 point racing bar? I'm not looking to spend a ton on one, but I did find a really nice Cusco one for my Accord for 150 shipped. I guess I'll just have to do some searching around for one. I got few more questions though. Is the rear strut tower bar going to cut down on trunk space or does it sit high enough that it's not a problem? Do they make any exhausts for a Civic that aren't rediculously loud or insanely expensive?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The rear bar will be in the way. It doesn't TAKE UP much space per se, but it does get in the way. Your trunk will be divided in a way that you wont be able to put much crap in it anymore. Groceries shouldn't be an issue, even if you're feeding a bear. However, a mountain bike, for example....or something like that may be a problem. I dont know if cusco makes a 3 point for the civic. What I was trying to say is that the 3 point is going to be the most effective one. If you're buying a 2 point bar, however, you can just cheap out...they're all pretty much the same.

The APEX'i World sport is an AMAZING looking/sounding exhaust. It should be around $400ish. If you PM me, I can refer you to a place that has a good price on them and is offering free shipping right now. You can even get it in a "noir" finish that makes it look real stealth. However, the noir version costs more. I plan on just painting my regular one with some black high temp paint. That way, if I dont like the noir look, I can always go back.

 

Maybe I'll not go with the rear strut bar then. I'm trying to keep this car as useable as can be and not limit what it can do. I wouldn't want it taking up trunk space that might be needed. I agree though, all the 2 point bars are pretty much the same design and cheaping on one of those isn't an issue. The 3 point bar is where you'd wanna get something with some R&D put into it.

I've heard good things about the APEX'i World Sport exhaust too. It doesn't look ricey and sounds really nice. I've seen in on one of my friend's Civic EX's. That's actually the exhaust I was thinking of from the start. Kinda cool they make it in the black finish, but I'm sure we'll just stick with the usual stainless finish. If you could, send the reference to my e-mail address (templeton_cody@hotmail.com) so that I could show it to my girlfriend. Thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A_Rotary_Guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe I'll not go with the rear strut bar then. I'm trying to keep this car as useable as can be and not limit what it can do. I wouldn't want it taking up trunk space that might be needed. I agree though, all the 2 point bars are pretty much the same design and cheaping on one of those isn't an issue. The 3 point bar is where you'd wanna get something with some R&D put into it.

I've heard good things about the APEX'i World Sport exhaust too. It doesn't look ricey and sounds really nice. I've seen in on one of my friend's Civic EX's. That's actually the exhaust I was thinking of from the start. Kinda cool they make it in the black finish, but I'm sure we'll just stick with the usual stainless finish. If you could, send the reference to my e-mail address (templeton_cody@hotmail.com) so that I could show it to my girlfriend. Thanks. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Even a cheapo 3 point strut bar would work well. It's just not easy to find a cheapo 3 point bar, that's all.

Email is too much work. I'm sending you a PM. Turn off your pop ups so you can get it.

 

I can't figure out how to turn off my pop-ups so I can't get the link. Could you please e-mail me it?