Honda-Tech does not have an engine management forum for some reason, so I felt that this was the most appropriate category for these questions. I have a 1990 4 Door EX (D16A6), and I was originally looking at doing an OBD1 conversion and tuning with Crome. Upon futher research, it seems my ECU (I believe to be a PM6, but the car is not currently at my location due to me rebuilding the motor at my buddies shop, so I cant look) should be chippable.

I was looking at getting this kit from Moates:

http://www.moates.net/product_...d=170

It looks like a very nice kit for the price, and mentions specifically that the PM6 can be chipped. I do a lot of electronics soldering, so this would be a breeze to install. It mentions using BRE for OBD0 tuning, but does not mention TurboEdit. I have already downloaded and played with TurboEdit a bit as I could not find a link to download BRE. Is one better than the other? Would it be worth it to locate a download for BRE? Can TurboEdit even be used with this kit?

Here's another possible issue: My car is currently an automatic, is any of this tuning software compatible with an automatic transmission, or is it a must to convert to a manual now? The plan is to get the car running on this so I can learn the software (I am not new to standalone tuning, just to chippable Honda ECU's), and later this summer it is getting a manual conversion, and a low boost turbo set-up (Probably 5-6PSI), after I properly break in the re-built motor. I am hoping some people in here may have knowlege on the topic as I am hoping some of the SI/EX D16A6 guys in here have dealt with this!

 

Anyone? Really trying to figure out if I should be purchasing this kit!

 

here is the deal. I wouldn't chip your auto ecu. You should convert your car to manual and then worry about it. The other assumption is that your '90 ecu is an external eprom ecu. If it isn't(which is unlikely, but possible), then the chip kit will get you no where. for the record, internal eprom ecu's can be chipped, but its a PITA, and the moates chip kit only has a few of the peices you need to do the internal eprom ecu.. anyway, back on track..

turboedit is the weapon of choice for obd0 tuning at this point. Bre is pretty old and aside from supporting obd0 vtec ecu's, it isnt used nearly as much as turboedit. So as far as support is concerned, turboedit is the place to be.

Turboedit is absolutely ok to use with the moates chip kit, but turboedit doesn't have provisions for an auto ecu, which will make your life difficult. I suppose you could just yank the auto trans lockup solenoid line and run a manual ecu and nothing would happen, but i have never done that.. maybe someone here has.

I would do your process in reverse, get the manual trans conversion figured out first, then spend time messing with the ecu now that the auto trans isn't in the mix.

Unfortunately you cant even chip the ecu to use the factory Honda map (with the intention of changing to a turboedit map later) , because all the factory dumps i have seen are for manual trans cars. You might be able to find one by talking to a tuning guru around here like xenocron or kenjii, but PGMFI doesn't have one, i checked for you...


Modified by sanimalp at 7:52 AM 1/29/2008

 

go to xenocron.com

 

Thank you very much sanimalp. I am actually curious about the auto trans electronics. I even bought a one year All-Data subscription for my car so I could sort out all of the drivetrain electronics. The engine was fully covered, but the transmission is not covered in the electrical section for some reason. If the only electronic related parts are for the torque converter lock-up, I could probably build a module to control the transmission separate from the engine ECU allowing me to convert to a manual trans ECU. I will be converting to a manula trans in the summer, but really want to start playing with the software now. if it really becomes an impractical option, I will wait.

 

Another ? Does the Moates chip system solder directly in, or do several wires have to be run between between the chip an ECU board? I have seen varying things while searching. I am getting the idea that this is a little to out of the basic tech range for this forum, but I dont know where else to ask, not to play down the answers I have been given so far, but people that can answer these ?'s seem to be sparce here. I tried the PGMPFI board, but those threads get virtually no traffic in comparison.

 

i dont think its a direct desolder solder swap if you have an auto...

you need a PM6 ecu from a 90-91 SI Civic or CRX. that kit you posted above doesnt include a ZIF socket or anything that i saw...

there are ways to chip "unchipable" ecus but its a lot more involved.

PGMFI is where the info is. if you dont have an account sign up there is lots more info

 

i would assume you have a PS9 ecu...if it has a 28 pin chip then its chippable and the moates kit should work fine.

from what ive read as long as you dont enable vtec, the auto-lockup solenoid line will function like stock...but im not 100% sure on this.

i wouldnt buy anything until you are sure of which ecu you have and have done the research on the auto-lockup solenoid line issue...

 

You should have a ps9 ecu like fastcrxsi said. The PS9 is chipable just like the pm6 and can be converted to run manual also. Im not familiar with turboedit as I usually use BRE but Ive never used it on a nonvtec ecu. You can download bre in the bre forum on pgmfi.org. My only advice would be to try both and see what works for you.

 

well its good kit i got the burn1 usb it should be in by today but id get the emulator its good for road tuning so that u can get all the bugs out wile on the highway even better if theres a passenger

 

here are some links, you can read up about it.. there is a lot of info in the pages and more links within the pages.

Intro to ECU Chipping

Another FAQ on ecu reprogramming

You will not have to add any wires if your ecu is an external eprom ecu. If it is an internal eprom, it will need some wires. If your ecu is an internal eprom ecu, which is unlikely, then i would recommend getting an external eprom ecu before messing with it. The pages linked above should have most of the information, or link to most of the information you need.



Modified by sanimalp at 10:20 AM 1/29/2008

 

Thanks guys, all good info. I am gonna grab the ECU today as I am going to stop by my buddies shop. I should probably make sure what ECU I have before I go any further.

 

Turns out you sharp bastards were correct. I do infact have a PS9, so I am assuming that this is the automatic equivelent of the PM6 ECU. After some thought, and little help from the good folks at Moates, I have decided to convert to OBD1 over OBD0. Thanks again, you guys were a great help in me getting this sorted out. I think I am going to hunt for a good 5 speed donor car to get things moving forward at this point.