Assume the following:

-Equal cars (full interior type r with stock wheels, tires, suspension) - mild upgrades to the motor and tranny, and more agressive brake pads..... ~2600lbs.

-Equal drivers.


So basically you have a few options:

- upgrade brakes.

- upgrade wheel/ tire combo.

- upgrade suspension including coilover/ bars.

- lighten up that heavy pig.


Now, the order they're listed in is the order preferred - but for no particular reason other than you've got the future $ you don't have already burning the figurative hole in your pocket, and itching to keep that go-fast-crack-pipe burning...

Goal: On a 60 second course, drop to 55 seconds or lower.....

Is it even possible?

 

Honestly, I'd become a better driver.

 

Suspension will make the car feel better, but that doesn't me crap if it can't grip, get tires and wheels...

 

sniff, sniff, do I smell Street Prepared or Street Mod?

No

R compounds and light weight rims can shave 1-2 seconds

A nice coilover suspension can shave up to a second but the stock ITR setup is rather good.

Not many options unless you're looking at Modified class or something


Of course everyone on this board and their mother will tell you to spend the money on the driver (I agree) but there's a limit to how fast you can learn and improve (sometimes you just have to take a brake and digest what you have learned) so in the mean time figure out what class you want to build your car for then ask people who are already in that class (with the same car if you can) and ask them what mods helped the most.


[Modified by Geratol, 4:25 PM 7/1/2002]

 

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

I forgot to mention - already in SM, so don't worry about getting kicked out of a particular class. I run against myself really.

Upgrade driver? Yes. But there are only so many schools/ events each month. Please remember that this is "assuming equal drivers," so upgrading them doesn't count for this exercise.

Keep 'em coming!

 

Stock brakes are plenty good, put the stock pads BACK on.
Some Hoosier R tires and 7" wide wheels
Shocks and springs (coilovers with race springs best choice)
SEAT time...and repeat twice more... (to perfect toe setup and really drain the car)

Jeff
[edit: sp??]



[Modified by jasyatz, 7:25 PM 7/1/2002]

 

Tires, R compund, as stated above.

 

I dunno if you actually could realistically hope to drop 5 seconds on a 60 sec course just with mods, given equal drivers and assuming you are already running r-tires. I mean that's A LOT... Consider that at the Nationals last year, stock GS ITRs were only about 1.5-2.0 sec slower than the fastest SM cars. Ok, maybe the talent pool was not as deep in SM vs. GS but still...

Why are you looking to drop 5 sec. Are you 5 sec behind some other car? Are you saying that the driver of that car drove his car and your car back -to-back and the difference was 5 sec on a 60 sec course? If so, you have your work cut out for you. Consider going back to G-stock...

 

If you are a 90% or better driver, you aren't going to find 5 seconds with simple bolt-ons on the same car if you are already in SM. Time to look for a lighter and more powerful car.

If you suck as a driver, then yes--5 seconds is an easy find coupled with better car setup as you become accustomed to it.

5 seconds is a *lifetime* on an autox course.

 

Is there such a thing? Given how many variables there are in autocrossing I don't think any two drivers could be equal.

Anyhow, I get what you're saying and if it was my ITR that I was preparing for SM I would begin with the following:

Hoosiers (Kumhos in reality because I can't afford Hoosiers )
High quality Coilovers
Lightweight Flywheel
Remove everthing the rules allow (Back seats, etc..)

and if I were made of money:
Custom Penske/JRZ/Bilstin Coilovers
Tech 3 with ITBs

 

Hey (Ken?), you from atlanta right? I'll be running in your class starting august when I get back in town. I was running STX in my Talon (not the ITR) before I left earlier this year, but since that class is small and SM is so big and competitive, I would much rather settle for a 3rd or less(or maybe better) after a competitive event than win easily. So look forward in seeing you in SM! I will still be running my street tires (because running street tires is sooo much more convenient!) and current STX setup, so you SM guys better be nice to me!

5 seconds is a lot, especially if you are already pushing the car. Beginners who do not drive close to the car's limit can easily find 5 seconds or more. But I'm sure you know this already.

I would get a set of R tires. Maybe a 1 to 1.5 second mod over good street tires. This will be the single biggest help on the ITR I believe. For me (talon) the coil over suspension made a dramatic difference and I was very impressed with the car at the last event I ran with it (I think it was 8th pax overall), but this is because the stock Talon's handling does not compare to the ITR's. So the difference should not be so big. I wouldn't worry about any more power mods for autox. Those would make a much bigger difference out on a track where you can really use the car's extra power for longer periods of time. Good luck and see you in august.


[Modified by Hracer, 8:48 PM 7/1/2002]

 

Spend $600 on a nice exhaust and gain maybe .5 seconds on a 60 second course, or spend $225 on an Evolution School (fix the driver before fixing the car) and maybe gain 4-8 seconds on the same course. You can put all the mods on the car you want, but if the driver cannot take the right lines, he/she will never use those mods effectively.

Ever since my Evolution School I have decreased my time (compared to other drivers in our region) by 2-4 seconds. I have (fingers crossed) finally placed 1st in PAX on Sunday and 5th on Saturday. Last year I was in top 10, back in 2000 I was in top 20.

 

Hi Alex, yes I remember you well... Thankfully I'm a lot more competitive than last year... Don't worry though, I'll still be on re010's for at least 1-2 more events..... You don't need r compounds with awd, do you?

I saw zsolt out there and although I didn't get a chance to ride with him this time, we exchanged pleasantries. Incidentally, I gave him quite a run for his money.....

My goals are lofty, however - ftd will be mine one day... I figure with the addition of R compounds, 15x7 lightweight forged rims, good coilovers and swaybars/ tower bars, I may be on my way there... Provided the car has a halfway decent driver.....

Again, thanks for the responses guys. It seems I was going along the right path in thinking stickies and wheels should first on my list.

 

Ken~ sorry I didn't see you at the Ted on Sunday. In fact, I didn't even see your car! Were you really there? I don't have anything useful to add here b/c what I would have mentioned has already been said, plus much more has been said than I ever woudda thought... I'll just chime in to say the going to an R rated tire will probably produce the biggest drop in time. Also, don't know if you were serious, but in case you were... I'd leave SM for another class (say EP, CSP, FM, or SS) if you're interested in FTD. It might happen in smaller regions, but the Atlanta market is big enough and competitive enough that I seriously doubt an SM car is up to the task.

 

Casey is right. FTD with the caliber of drivers and fast cars we have in Atlanta among our almost 200 entries at every event is quite a challenge. But anything is possible I guess?

Ken, you're right also. R tires are not needed with AWD.

 

Ken - there's no way an ITR will get the FTD in SM class. I think you should get some R-compound tires though... that should shave 1-2 sec off your time.

 

FTD out of 200 drivers? Obviously you guys have no good Mod, Prep, or SP guys where you run

 

I think Ken-E wants to run a sub 55 sec time like that bad *** S2000 we saw.

Dude, he was an awesome driver...plus on R compound tires. Do the rims and tires first. Go from there.

 

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK!!
Either 14 in or 15 in rims on a crx hf driving in the H1 class.

Also what profile tire?

 

The Best Way to take 5 seconds of your time

SLOW DOWN

 

1) Tires
2) Weight
3) Suspension
4) Brakes


.5) More experience.... Equipment WILL NOT get you 5 seconds on a 60 second course. Put the best drvier in the class in your car during an instructional run. Use that as a benchmark.

 

5 seconds? Cha-ching! For an SM car...

1)Ditch those big rotors and get something you can slip a 13" wheel over.

2)Buy 13 x 9" Fronts and 13 x 8" Rears. Just make sure they weigh less than 10 lbs each. Wrap the wheels in Hoosier autocross radials 225/45/13.

3)Full coilover suspension with the requisite spring rates and shock valving, ideally high enough to enable you to ditch the front sway bar (weight) without banging fenders with your fat little tires. Look into tubular sway bars as well...

4)Start your Atkins diet.

5)Put the car on a *serious* diet. C/F hood, C/F front and rear facia, C/F fenders, replace the exhaust with a Ti shorty and a turn-down, ditch the AC, lose the back seat, get race seats (lose the sliders too), radio delete, light weight battery, light weight steering wheel, aluminum LCA's, Ti rear trailing arms, Ti shift linkage, C/F axles, blah blah blah. Heck, you can even get into the tranny and start tearing out gears. You'll never need 4th or 5th.

Who knows what all that adds up to, but if you can somehow get the car into the 2000 lb range, then maybe you have a shot. But who'd wanna do this to a ITR??? Oh, c'n I borrow some money?

 

The some guy in a Civic hatch will show up, with all the same stuff done, weighing 1800lbs and make that 15K in mods you spent on your car loook like an investment in Enron stock.

 

>>The some guy in a Civic hatch will show up, with all the same stuff done, weighing 1800lbs and make that 15K in mods you spent on your car loook like an investment in Enron stock.<<

I hear ya! It's a painful thing... ITR's are certainly not the best choice for SM (or 5G and 6G Civics, or maybe anything not badged "M3" for that matter). What about STX though? I'm not too familiar with the rules, but is there anything to keep a Civic from doing the same thing over there?

 

Yeah, no motor swaps in STX. STX = STS with just a few extra bullsh!t additions.