During the Double regional at Laguna, there was a 2 car incindent between T2&T3. The cars got banged up. They got back on the track to get into the paddock, but they dropped some parts on the track. I came around T4 and there was 2 peices of car in the middle of the road. It was just like autocrossing . I swerved to avoid the first one, and kept the car under control.

 

yah, all racing skills are useful. weather it'd be drag, autox, or road racing. just wish ppl aren't always so close minded about stuff. i'm happy with the stuff i learned from any and all seat time no matter what type of racing it is.

just browsed your page. nice writeups. but, damn your site has crappy annoying pop up ads.

how did you hook up with Nick Theroux?? i haven't met him, and i only know of him because his name is on ITA track record(s) page.




[Modified by frank@b16a.com, 5:57 PM 7/1/2002]

 

Yes autox definitely makes you learn car control and quick thinking. The autox experience I had before my scca schools were extremely valuable. And those good at drag racing should do really well at the ECHC standing starts!!

 

funny how this topic comes up. this weekend i did my first autox in a long while since the road race shedule overlaps pretty much with the solo2 sched. i did horribly! i think im too used to track mentality where you try to brake as little as possible so you dont throw away speed you worked so hard for. so i came in way too fast in a lot of corners which were 3 hairpins in a row where i needed to slam the brakes, and there were lots of marbles on this course so that didnt help. so it put me in perspective of how the two are so different, but i guess thats obvious. i've worked so hard to get me out of autox mode on the track, its interesting to see what its done on the autox... hopefully ill be prepared better mentally next time. i should make it out for the whole slush season.

 

I remember talking to some well respected pro (road race) drivers that did the One Lap of America a few years ago. They were blown away with the speed of the guys with Autocross experience. As they explained it, the guys with road racing got up to full speed by lap two... the autocrossers were up to speed by turn 2!!

 

I think this is true. I have only been AutoXing for about 6 months, I think I have done maybe 5 events, but I have been doing HPDEs for about 3 years. About the time I have made my 4th pass though the course and the event is over, I am up to speed and could probably turn good times.

I guess that is why I am always at bottom of the Atlanta DSP heap. One thing is for sure, turning fast times at an AutoX is a lot harder then on a circuit, at least for me.


[Modified by SPiFF, 9:22 PM 7/1/2002]

 

You were probably over-driving if you think you need to brake more for autocross. Autocross is more "momentum maintenance" than it is in road racing, IMO. Brake a little, keep the momentum going, no need to run the perfect line (setup on the outside to try and clip the apex perfectly to a big run down the straightaway) since covering the shortest distance is usually the fastest way around an autocross course.


[Modified by slowSER, 9:44 PM 7/1/2002]

 

If possible, doing both is the best way to go I think. For me I would probably give up road racing for whatever reason (most likely money or time) if I could not do both and just stick to autox.

There really are *key* skills you learn in autox that you can directly apply to track driving or to any driving period. These are not complicated things such as different lines, heel&toe, car setup, etc... I'm talking about simply getting the “feel” for the car you are driving and getting under its skin. Autox is a VERY good way to develop this touch and is one of the reasons I like it and why I do it as often as I can. You can never “feel” a car too much. The better you are at it (however way you learned to do it), the better driver you will be in no matter what conditions.

 

autox skills take a lot of time to develop. good autox can jump in to road racing and develop VERY fast and do VERY well (Randy Pobst for example). but it's not the same vise versa, a kick *** road racer who never autox'ed will get their *** kicked by top autoxer's.

with that said, there are tons of people who dabbled at a few autox and think they're all that... they aren't even good at autox yet. and when they show up at tracks for the first time they act like they have lots of skills, only to find out they they suck ***.

my gripes about autox is just the amount of time of money you have to spend for 3 minutes of fun. but the competition is fierce! getting the most our of you and your car in couple runs requires lot of skills and autox seat time.

if you divide $$ by seat time you'll see autox cost is very high.





[Modified by frank@b16a.com, 7:24 PM 7/1/2002]

 

I found that in road racing, the car would begin sliding much slower than it did in autocross. Since my reactions were the same speed, in roadracing I found it MUCH easier to catch the car when it started drifting. I never figured out why.

 

If you think that's bad, consider drag racing. I think timetrials have the max fun / $ spent because of all the track time.

 

autox has lots of transitions, and also the turns are tighter (lot more steering input). thus rear end step out faster... in autox your steering input can sometimes be down right violent, while RR'ing the steering input is very tame by comparison.

 

fast hands (like autocrossing) will get you out of trouble on track. Of course when used incorrectly, they can get you into far worse trouble...

 

frank@b16a.com has the right idea in his first post

ill tell you this...my drag racing experience allowed me to absolutely slaughter the 6 car grid during the practice starts at skip barber...yes starting from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rows getting to the corner first two times and 3rd on the last start!

 

I agree.

Problem is that not everyone can afford to spend more money on road racing, just so that their ratio of seat time per dollar is better. I have a few good friends at the autox who are *very* good drivers (and it is easy to tell who the good drivers just by the way they are able to push the car) and if they could afford it, they would love to road race. Just like the Z06 has an incredible bang for the buck value, not everyone can afford to get a Z06 in the first place to take advantage its fun/dollar ratio. As for me, this year and next year my autox budget will be exactly $25 * the # of events I run. If I do any mods to my car I do them because I enjoy the car a lot more afterwards, regardless if I was autocrossing or not. The only other extra cost of autocrossing is the extra wear on my azenis. Oh well! Small price to pay. For the period I was on R tires, a set of kumhos per season was indeed an additional cost. Having experienced (and still experiencing) first hand the benefits of autocrossing, I am not sure I can see the day when I'll ever stop autocrossing.

 

Well said, Alex. Having been at this (autocrossing) for a full year now, I am totally and completely hooked. IMO, autocrossing is one of the best tools for learning car control, car set-up issues, memorizing course layout, and forcing yourself to think about what you're doing every single moment you're on the course. If you take the entire time required to drive to the event, setup your car, get your runs in, and do your work assignment, and then pack up and go home (I call this a "shift" b/c I'm usually gone from the house about 8 hrs.), then it might not seem like a great deal. For me, though, the $25 entry fee for 4 timed runs, as well as all the other time required for participation, is well worth it. Dollar for dollar, it's a good deal in my book, and a great adrenaline rush to boot! In addition, autocrossing is what fits best into my budget -- both time-wise and expense-wise. Some day I hope to participate in HPDEs, and perhaps even road racing, but time is my biggest limiting factor right now. I have even begun to prepare for my first (whenever it happens) HPDE by purchasing a slightly used set of front rotors and Hawk blues to be used on the track. So until then, autocrossing is all I have, and it sounds like (from what others have posted here) this will be helpful once I find my way to the track.