Over the weekend on the JC the TYPE R I was running in was having a major problem with oil pickup on hard cornering turns. In the middle of 4 (the small carousel) I would loose VTEC and then again on the last turn (7). I know I need an aftermarket oil pan to correct this problem but has anyone had and fixed this problem before? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

i heard the moroso oilpan eliminates that problem, (the oilpan is raised around the pickup so it holds oil under the pickup even under hard cornering)




(moroso's site says this is only for 1.3 and 1.5l honda motors, no b series. ive seen the b series ones tho...go figure)



[Modified by KAMiN, 11:57 AM 7/1/2002]

 

Thanks man. I was looking into that very same thing. Does anyone know the quality difference between the Moroso and the spoon or mugen ones? If I am just paying for a name or import costs I can do without. If there is something better about them please let me know. Thanks for the pic's Kamin. Nice avatar BTW.

 

glad to help and thanks

 

where was your oil level at the start of your session?

I usually add extra to the motor so that the oil level is ~1/16" over the top hole.

 

Hrm...I remember at one time during our last session you actually got sideways in that section. Nice save, btw

Jason-
who wishes he would have gotten that on camera

 

I have MAJOR problems with this on my prelude... Overfilling the oil helps, I am about 1/8 over and it helps a lot.. Baffled oil pan, sometime...

 

I was actually over filled. I don't know how much but as some of the people who were there will tell you I was blowing a James bond esq. oil cloud out the back of the car until the excess oil burned off. Jason you didn't happen to have a video camera running when I caught that slide did you? I don't know how much it was actually coming around on me but it sure felt like a lot. Thanks for the compliment. Corey, what you said makes sense because I didn't start having this problem until mid 2nd session when oil had burned away. This problem is soo frustrating.

 

DO NOT go with the Moroso b-series pan if you plan on road/circuit racing! I have one on my b20vtec right now, and i'm breaking the motor in on the street. Around left turns(driving somewhat "sprited"), the needle on my oil pressure guage drops to the peg!!! eek! Right turns seem to be o.k.(pickup location on the left side). We're going to talk to Moroso tomorrow to see what the deal is. I had thought the b-series pan was for "drag racing only", but they had assured us during our buildup that this pan would work for street/autocross/roadrace(hmmm...). I'll let you guys/girls know what comes of this. I'm thinking a Mugen or Spoon modified stock pan would be the best- maybe an dry sump setup?...
Just thought i'd share.
Jeff


[Modified by jg, 7:06 PM 7/1/2002]

 

This is all very disturbing. I saw a very badly damanged D series cam lobe, I think more due to insufficient oil supply in the valvetrain than the oil pan. I've not heard of oil problems on the DOHC motors.
Have any of you seen increased wear or even mechanical damage due to these oil pickup problems on the DOHC motors? I guess if you starve the pump, pressure drops below the VTEC threshold?

 

Interesting, I have run the Moroso pan and pickup on my B17A1 for three years autocrossing and track days, over 30 events per year and never encountered a pressure or pickup problem.

 

do you have a mechanical guage hooked up?

 

Mugen:



I can't see any differences. Can anyone with a see anything that is different other than the price?

Keith-who really wants to fix this problem asap.


[Modified by Mclaren_F1_Fan, 2:48 PM 7/2/2002]

 

I like that Mugen pan.. Looks like less oil is going to shift with that pan.. Do you have any Idea if Mugen or Spoon makes those pans for a H22a?? I doubt it..

 

No it looks like they don't. Spoon doesn't look like they make anything for the Prelude and Mugen makes very little. I am talking about just engine stuff didn't look for anything else.

 

It looks like the Moroso pan has actual baffles, where the Mugen and Spoon pan just has a large depression where the pickup is. I looks like the Moroso also increases your capacity as well.

Does SMS use a modified Moroso pan with their B20 header? Is the baffling modified, or just the shape to fit around the pipes?

 

Ok this solutions seems to be harder and harder to find a clear cut answer. I called King Motorsports and they said on there indurence cars that this was a known issue and they ran the Mugen oil pan with an accusump (sp wrong I'm sure) and oil cooler. Then I called RandD and they said they have never heard of the issue then switched to another line and never got back to me . So I called the mechanic that I go to for all the things I can't do myself and he said just run any sort of baffled oil pan and over fill the motor like Corey said. I'm starting to think I should just go with what my mechanic said. Does that sound right to everyone? Ohh yeah Corey he also said that he knows someone that will build a custom baffled oil pan if you are interested.

 

oil starvation led me to blow a d16z6 last year at streets of willow..and it had a lil over the limit too. spun a rod bearing. click click click..okay **** it its only a sohc vtec no biggy..kept driving..clunk clunk clunk..lol

 

anyone else??? Stock or Mugen pan?

 

Mugen has a well designed pan. I overfill a bit. Stock pan for right now. As long as I religously keep up the oil level, oil starvation is not an issue.

Might be a problem on an endurance car which is out there for 1:30 at a time though.

Warren

 

So you are saying that I should keep the thing over filled at all times? Another question I have and I think I already know the answer to this is, do you think that the oil I am running is also contributing? I am running 5w30, I know this is stupid to be running it in hot *** conditions but to be honest I really didn't think of it until after I had already put it in the car. I really don't think the oil is the problem because before this oil change I was running the red line 50w and I was having the exact same problem in the 6,7,8 esses combo on the big track.

 

I recently posted questions about dry sump systems for a H22A1. What you guys are talking about is exactly my concern, and since my engine is going into something (see sig) *very* corner tolerant, I'm worried. As I was reminded, you can't just put on a dry sump pump because the H22A1 spins the "wrong" way. So I'm debating that, an Accusump, and/or a better pan. I've been told an Accusump is bad because it removes a quart or so from the total oil volume (still thinking about that one... not sure that makes sense.)

What do the professional road racing Hondas use? I need to call them but have no idea who races Hondas (especially Prelude.)

 

I don't think the thin oil is part of the problem. Also, most modern cars run 5w30 oil because of the very tight bearing tollerances from the factory. You need a thin oil to get in their. I would be very nervous running 50w oil in a modern factory engine.

In race engines where bearing tolerances are looser to free up a few horsepower, you will see heavier weight oils to make up for the difference.

 

I blew my '01 type r engine after only 9 laps at the big track of Willow. I spun a bearing. So, I installed a oil cooler and a mugen pan. The mugen pan is a stock pan with baffles welded in. This is the reason that they cost so little. I have been to the track 3 more times since then and have had no problems. If you are installing a pan you might think about a cooler as well. As for over filling your oil, it is a big no no. Be careful when you do this because this can cause you to blow seals. Things tend to expand when they get hot and with more oil means more volume. Hence, the pressures in your engine get higher and this equals blown seals. Be sure not to over over fill.

 

looks like the Mugen pan is the ways to go.
Thanks.