just thought i'd share these bits to all the prospective ep3 buyers.

i hear posts like this all the time here... (i fixed the spelling, but not the caps)
---------------------------------
"I THINK MAYBE HONDA SHOULD HAVE ADDED A TURBO ON THIS CAR CUZ MAN ITS SLOW, I BOUGHT MY EP3 ABOUT A MONTH AGO AND HAVE LOST EVERY RACE SO FAR...

...I JUST THINK IF THIS CAR IS GONNA WEAR A SI BADGE IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO "KEEP UP WITH OTHER CARS CUZ RIGHT NOW ITS NOT WORTHY OF THE SI BADGE. "
"Si badge doesnt mean anything. Every Si before and including the ep3 has been YES, slow."
"The i-Vtec sucks in the ep3!"
---------------------------------
again- i've had 9 Civics in my lifetime... and i know this EP3 Civic is worth the badge!
it's NOT a TYPE-R! and it's NOT a S2000! ...it's a Civic Si, and a Damn good one at that!
Very tired, but eager to defend my lil' whip... i did some searching tonight...

Road & Track had a number of articles on these! ...and i quote,
"Honda's Civic Si has stirred our emotions since it first hit the U.S. market in 1986. Although NEVER A FULL-ON SPORTS CAR, the Si badge meant this was a SPECIAL Civic, one worth driving simply for the sake of driving."

this was their review about the 7th gen civic (02-Si)
"...the (7th gen) Si is significantly stronger than the last Civic hatchback of 1998. Moreover, the new Si has firm suspension, tuned almost identically to that of the European Civic Type R, a car not sold in the U.S.

Complementing the Si's rigid structure and sport suspension is its 2.0-liter powerplant, the same eager twincam 4-cylinder with chain-driven overhead cams found in the standard Acura RSX. This aluminum-block engine is aided by i-VTEC, which takes Honda's system of variable valve timing and lift one step further:
It makes the phasing of the intake camshaft completely variable across the rev range to increase power, improve fuel economy and reduce emissions.

What this translates to in real life is an extremely smooth engine with a wide powerband and none of the power spikes found in other VTEC engines. This engine just pulls and pulls. At the same time it's efficient, giving the Si expected overall fuel economy of 28 mpg.

The engine produces 160 bhp at 6500 rpm, and 132 lb.-ft. of torque at 5000 rpm, the highest totals ever in a production Honda Civic.
(and after you mod them, you get double what a "normal civic" has for power!)

That power reaches the front wheels via a compact new close-ratio 5-speed manual transmission with triple-cone synchronizers for 1st and 2nd gears. The action of the cable linkage is excellent, with short throws nearly on a par with those of the Honda S2000.

What makes the Si's shifter interesting is that it protrudes from a rounded pod on the dash. The arrangement looks odd but works well because the driver's right hand doesn't have to drop far from the steering wheel to grab another gear. Another benefit is the freed-up floor space...

for the most part it's a distinctively shaped automobile that's well put together, combining excellent power and firm suspension with an honest back seat and a practical hatchback. The '02 Si is the first Civic with electrically assisted steering!"

"...yet is vastly more enjoyable to drive stoplight to stoplight because of the extra low-end power (consider that this engine makes more torque at 2000 rpm than the old Si's did at its peak!)"
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sure, the 8th gen Si's are a bit quicker stock- but cost more!

IMHO, love them or hate them, EP3 + MODS = PERFECT Daily Drivers

 

No doubt our cars have their problems, but so do all cars, even the f50. I do think honda screwed up by putting the a3 in the ep3 but it's nothing that can't be fixed what a supercharger or turbo. Even if our cars came with the a2 we would still swap something else that puts more power down at some point. So what i'm getting at is that we can never be happy with what we have and we will always try to make it better is so way. I just have to say i love my ep3.

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moores55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No doubt our cars have their problems, but so do all cars, even the f50. I do think honda screwed up by putting the a3 in the ep3 but it's nothing that can't be fixed what a supercharger or turbo. Even if our cars came with the a2 we would still swap something else that puts more power down at some point. So what i'm getting at is that we can never be happy with what we have and we will always try to make it better is so way. I just have to say i love my ep3.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I love my ep3 also.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moores55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No doubt our cars have their problems, but so do all cars, even the f50...</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think i could overlook the Ferrari's faults... if i had an F50!
(but i'd rather have an old Countach- like in the movie CANNONBALL! ...Those STILL look killer!)

i'm sure that even after the Lambo comes, I'LL STILL LOVE MY EP3!

 

I have NEVER owned an EP3 but it was a close tie between it and my DC5. I still defend these cars everytime they are brought up! I love them but I have never driven one. I also think they have awesome styling. You guys keep up the good work and give those haters something to hate...

 

The style is just hideous in my opinion. And you truly got jacked with the engine. C'mon its supposed to be sporty but it got a weak *** eco engine like those found in the Accord. At least the B16 was a true VTEC engine. Defend it all you want ,but it was a disappointment that strayed away from the SI's roots..Not saying my RSX is better. Many people consider it to be hideous looking as well, but the performance is on par with Intergas of the past. The same cannot be said for that SI of yours.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cb7-R..no more &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The style is just hideous in my opinion. And you truly got jacked with the engine. C'mon its supposed to be sporty but it got a weak *** eco engine like those found in the Accord. At least the B16 was a true VTEC engine. Defend it all you want ,but it was a disappointment that strayed away from the SI's roots..Not saying my RSX is better. Many people consider it to be hideous looking as well, but the performance is on par with Intergas of the past. The same cannot be said for that SI of yours.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you figure? The EP3 is higher performance than the 99-00 B16A2 powered Si. Let the B16 have "true" VTEC, but the i-VTEC "eco" K20A3 outperforms it. It was on-par with Sis of the past, maybe by not a large degree, but it was better none the less. It was never meant to to be the fastest thing on the road, just sporty and fun to drive, which it is.

 

I like my EP3, aside from the trans problems im having right now (syncros in 1,2,3 are a little fuxed) its an OK DD... however i wish it had more torque. My opinion is biased because i prefer less rev's to more torque at low revs, which is opposite of hondas. I bought it for good gas mileage, and because its a good lookin car, and for that i love it.

 

I &lt;3 my ep3

Nice job on the research

 

I dont get why people hate on the EP3 so much. Sure its not crazy fast or anything but it can be had for pretty cheap nowadays and has a lot of potential just like any other Honda pretty much.

It gets a from me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnclaunch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How do you figure? The EP3 is higher performance than the 99-00 B16A2 powered Si. Let the B16 have "true" VTEC, but the i-VTEC "eco" K20A3 outperforms it. It was on-par with Sis of the past, maybe by not a large degree, but it was better none the less. It was never meant to to be the fastest thing on the road, just sporty and fun to drive, which it is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The B16A2 was more race refined. Granted the B16 had at least a decade of history behind it...so I wouldn't say it's an entirely fair comparison. Though I do not envision Honda going further with the K20A3 and from the looks of things the motor will never be used again. Thus, I don't think we will see the day where the K20A3 builds up the history that the B16 had.

I'd take a B16A2 over a K20A3 any day, simply based on the fact that it is a good base motor. The K20A3 is a boring motor and not something I would consider fun or sporty. The B16A2 was truly fun and sporty, you had a high revving motor that had VTEC on both the intake and exhaust cams. With the K20A3 all you have is a 6500rpm with an eco-iVTEC configuration. The K20A3 reminds me more of the D16Y8 motor in terms of function and 'sportiness'.

True, the K20A3 is for all practical purposes a detuned K20A2, it still doesn't change the fact that the K20A3 is what it is. As similar as the motors are, there are some significant differences that would keep someone from making a K20A2 out of a K20A3. Head swaps have shown little to no real world gains and the bottom end is fairly weak...these 2 facts alone are what make building the K20A3 pointless and a waste of money.

The K20A3 only outperforms the B16A2 on paper. In terms of real performance they are dead even and honestly that doesn't say much considering there's little to no room for improvement on the K20A3.

IMO the K20A2 was the true successor to the B16A2. The K20A of course was the successor to the B18C.

Keep in mind this is all coming from someone who owns an EP with K20A3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WyldRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this was their review about the 7th gen civic (02-Si)
"...the (7th gen) Si is significantly stronger than the last Civic hatchback of 1998. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not trying to hate but this statement is retarded. the Old hatchback of 1998 had a d series engine.. of course it's significantly stronger. fugging writers tricking people with words.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thaseint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The K20A3 only outperforms the B16A2 on paper. In terms of real performance they are dead even and honestly that doesn't say much considering there's little to no room for improvement on the K20A3.</TD></TR></TABLE>
a buddy at work drives the 6th gen Si... coupe!
i always beat it off the line and it doesn't catch me until the next red light. (correct Gearing maybe?)

so, the K20a3 is the proven winner in my book.
-sure, i'm reflashed, and have a cold air intake... but that's it for engine mods!
i could squeeze a lot more power out of it, but why? i'm not racing anymore Vipers!

if you want slow, thake my '05 civic 1.4L !!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WyldRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a buddy at work drives the 6th gen Si... coupe!
i always beat it off the line and it doesn't catch me until the next red light. (correct Gearing maybe?)

so, the K20a3 is the proven winner in my book.
-sure, i'm reflashed, and have a cold air intake... but that's it for engine mods!
i could squeeze a lot more power out of it, but why? i'm not racing anymore Vipers!

if you want slow, thake my '05 civic 1.4L !!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. When I run FGs and the one Mugen Si, I beat it off the line and pulled until their VTEC hit, which caused us to run even, then when they shifted, I pulled again until their VTEC hit again. Anyway, it is a decent powerplant.

 

Regardless of the engine and its VTEC(or lack thereof), the EP3 is one heavy car.

One of the qualites that made Honda's Civic lineup so fun in the past was its light weight. All of the recent offerings from Honda have been 2600lbs+. When you are only making 160bhp, that type of weight is incredibly detrimental to performance...

And it also detracts from the braking performance and handling. Coupled with the macpherson strut front end, lack of positive caster, trouble achieving aggressive front camber angles, and a rear end that doesn't like to rotate... well... the car simply is not that sporty.

Of course, all of this can be remedied given proper modifications and setup. The car has tons of potential. But, out of the box, it is lacking.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WyldRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a buddy at work drives the 6th gen Si... coupe!
i always beat it off the line and it doesn't catch me until the next red light. (correct Gearing maybe?)

so, the K20a3 is the proven winner in my book.
-sure, i'm reflashed, and have a cold air intake... but that's it for engine mods!
i could squeeze a lot more power out of it, but why? i'm not racing anymore Vipers!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Stoplight to stoplight racing will be won by the motor with more torque, period.

Take your cars to a roadcourse and the B16A2 will walk away from the K20A3.

B16A2 is much more of a racing motor than the K20A3 is. I'd put $100 that my pickup truck will beat your K20A3 to the next stoplight. Does that make it a better motor?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by johnclaunch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How do you figure? The EP3 is higher performance than the 99-00 B16A2 powered Si. Let the B16 have "true" VTEC, but the i-VTEC "eco" K20A3 outperforms it. It was on-par with Sis of the past, maybe by not a large degree, but it was better none the less. It was never meant to to be the fastest thing on the road, just sporty and fun to drive, which it is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Outperforms it where, on the drag strip (even then the cars were even, stock vs. stock--and we're talking a motor with only 1.6L vs 2.0L)? Since when is drag racing a measure of a Honda motor?

As I said above, a roadcourse will show the true-tale of a Honda motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Outperforms it where, on the drag strip (even then the cars were even, stock vs. stock--and we're talking a motor with only 1.6L vs 2.0L)? Since when is drag racing a measure of a Honda motor?

As I said above, a roadcourse will show the true-tale of a Honda motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
RACE TRACK? ...ROAD TRACK? ...i just said it was a perfect Daily Driver!

on the STREET is where i love MINE! Jumping from Stoplight to Stoplight!
sure it lacks power "out the box" -but i never have any trouble passing!
and sure, it's heavier... but i feel safer in it (compared to the lighter ones i've had!)

i've had faster cars- but they all had their problems!

 

It's a better daily driver motor than the B16A2 in the 99-00 Si because the K20a3 has more low-end torque.

But the thread was headed toward the K20a3 being a better racing motor, and this is not true.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WyldRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sure it lacks power "out the box" -but i never have any trouble passing!

and sure, it's heavier... but i feel safer in it (compared to the lighter ones i've had!)


i've had faster cars- but they all had their problems! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Unfortunately, none of these are valid points to support anything besides your opinion of the car.

The fact is, that this generation Si is lacking compared to every other gen Si produced by Honda.

Not that it isn't a nice car... But come on. Let's be fair.

 

not this again. Never start a "ep3 defending thread". There will always be alot more negative opinions about the ep, because not alot of people like them. But because of it dispopulartity, the ep3 is pretty much the most unique/rare civic out there. Compared to the other civics you see(em, ek, eg,ef,fg,fa.......) on the road, eps are a gem. And if the ep is done real nice, on the road you will break some necks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JamesL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Unfortunately, none of these are valid points to support anything besides your opinion of the car.

The fact is, that this generation Si is lacking compared to every other gen Si produced by Honda.

Not that it isn't a nice car... But come on. Let's be fair.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. Its heavy and lacks a true performance engine. Just because the owners of these cars like them doesnt make them good. They were a dissapointment from day one ,peroid. You can make all the threads you want about how much you love your cars but it will change nothing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a better daily driver motor than the B16A2 in the 99-00 Si because the K20a3 has more low-end torque.

But the thread was headed toward the K20a3 being a better racing motor, and this is not true.</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

The K20A3 is not a race motor. The B16 on the other hand has over a decade worth of racing history and has been used extensively on the track.

The K20A3 is just another Honda motor in my opinion. Nothing spectacular about it and Honda was wise to never use it again. Nothing really performance about it...I like to think of it as "performance inspired", like the D16Y8 of its day.

As for the EP styling...well, I enjoy having a car that you don't see every day. My only beef is that Honda really makes us EP owners go to costly lengths just to make the EP look good. Short of a JDM CTR kit ($2500+), nothing else can save it.

 

Now, if i said...
"THIS IS THE FASTEST CAR HONDA EVER MADE! IT'S BUILT FOR RACING!"
i could see all the ..."The ep3 just plain sucks".... ...
but i didn't,
so please stop with how the D-B-C-F series is better...
those cars are a dime a dozen! IMHO!
want a fast Honda that i could envy... get a NSX... or a s2Kwith some heavy mods!