im lookin for a good 2.5" cat to mate to the jdm dc sports header im about to purchase , and also apex n1 exhausts, the turbo model is 2.5" right if not what size is it , and another question can i just order the turbo model universal n1 cuz iv only seen the na universal muffler ,an if i can where can i get it

thanks alot

eric

 

carsound
contact SMSP

 

 

 

carsound has quality problems...i just got mine replaced

 

how can you guys give the carsound cat a , have you seen all the post regarding it breaking, rattleing, and blowing up???

I'm sure you will understand that everyone here has been hoodwinked by Carsound sellers.
Time to get a cat from a different source or better yet a different brand.

 

01PYITR - Which brands would you suggest? I'd like to know too

-Buzz

 

I don't know if I would recommend Carsound anymore with mine broken and rattling inside. But perhaps SMSP's newer Carsound models are built better I don't know. We need some advice from the exhaust experts on this one.

 

We will see...

 

i really want to know about another cat too.......there must be some good 2.5' cats out there

 

Like I said in another thread the CL Type S cat will work with a JDM header. Pretty good flow and OEM quailty. Finding one for a good price, well thats another issue.

 

What about S2000 cat? They have metal-core, unlike carsound cat. I'm sure they are very expensive, but maybe worth the $$$ ?

 

...I wonder how many of these CarSound "rattle cats" are from SMSP... Dave does a little extra welding to keep the heat shield from rattling... mine doesn't rattle on a car that tends to catch a little "air" from time to time... Also wonder how many of these cats are on "bottom draggers" and how many more are on cars running overly rich?

Random Tech cats seem to suck by the way... at least a few years ago... having melt down problems... wonder how many of those where from some type of abuse also...


PS I have SMSP's newer CarSound...


[Modified by Zeus, 8:46 AM 6/30/2002]

 

A. teo custom cats.

check 9krpm.com for more details.

 

I was thinking the same damn thing, good observation rob

 

I knew a guy that got a Dodge Viper cat and had it made to fit his JDM Type R headers.

 

appearantly the NC we-todds like the one from Jegs
http://www.itr-nc.com/pages/jdm_4.htm

-jeff, who will give that one a shot when he gets enough $$ for a new header

 

Does the Univeral 14" catalytic converter come with the end flanges? Or does it look like this? And the cats have been discontinued.




[Modified by TakaIntegra, 9:55 AM 6/30/2002]

 

Just get one from IPS or SMSP.


[Modified by TakaIntegra, 9:57 AM 6/30/2002]

 

These are just some that I found thru google, if we have any ideas where they are good bady or ugly let have some comments. Lets try to see what we could do to get our cars rattle free.
http://www.bba-reman.com/cats.htm
http://www.all-catalytic-converters.com/
http://www.a-1performance.com/direct-fit_converters/
http://www.a-1performance.com/super_converter/
http://www.mkindustries.com/
http://www.californiamuffler.com/
http://www2.cnewsusa.com/ads/14525.html
http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalytic_converters.html

well this could be a help lets have some input on the sites I found.

 

i put a 65$ universal in my car.. havent had any problems... its actually welded fairly well.

 

I'd first like to say that the number of people having problems with cats is a very small percentage of the total I sell. However, I still have done some research in alternate manufacturers to try and fine out if their reliability is better, the same or worse. I still don't have a clear cut answer on that.

I did just look over the web sites that 01PYITR posted above and what I saw on a few of them were pictures of Carsound and Catco cats. Now I know Carsound manufactures their cats and I believe Catco does also. I think some of these cats may also be rebadged under other names, I do know for sure that Catco is sold under another name but I'm not sure about Carsound.

We're getting into the same thing that I just wrote about under the Kakimoto exhaust thread and that is some companies do not build what they sell. Parts are rebadged and contracted out to other companies to be built. I'm fairly certain that most of these converter manufacturers don't actually make the honey comb substrate. I know Siemens and Corning is in that business but I don't know who they supply the honey comb to. What I'm trying to get across is that you may find another "manufacturer" but you could still be buying the same product. Or you may be getting a different casing but have the same catalyst. I don't think any of us will know all the answers to these questions since we're not in the industry.

Here are 3 responses that I received from a Car Sound representative concerning this matter. The first is on the broken brick issue.

"With regard to the mat-it is designed to cushion the ceramic substrate, and is completely functional in that respect. The mat is not required to come to the edge of the substrate in order to cushion the substrate. Of possible cause for substrate failure in which the mat deteriorates is what we refer to as Thermal Failure. At excessively high temperatures, caused by rich fuel mixtures which are not completely burned in the combustion chamber and ignite in the catalytic converter, the stainless steel case expands to the point where the mat is separated from the case. As exhaust always follows the path of least resistance, the exhaust begins to flow between the mat and the case instead of through the substrate itself. At this point the mat is exposed to exhaust flow and begins to deteriorate. After a period of time, the mat disintegrates and the substrate, which is a brittle ceramic, comes in contact with the steel case and breaks up. So in some cases, the mat disappears because of an excessive heat factor instigated by unburned fuel due to a rich fuel mixture."

And these 2 responses that deal with CELs.

"David...ok...Ill let the proper people know about the rattling.....as far as these guys throwing codes on 00-01 cars....the OBDII system is a lot more sensitive and gets a lot more picky…….If you put on too big of a cat...such as one with 2.5" piping in a N/A close to stock sport compact car, it will not heat up enough causing the car to throw codes"


"The real problem lies with people going to 2.5" piping when they don't really need it. The piping is too big for the car and is not letting the cat work properly. The air is flowing so well through the bigger cat, the computer gets confused and thinks that they are not working. This is a problem on all cars when you change the size of the factory piping as we have heard it with Mustangs as well. For the cats to work properly, the stock pipe size needs to be maintained with OBDII applications, if you have had experiences different then this...let me know...and Ill ask around."

Obviously, I believe the B18VTEC and B20VTEC engines need a larger cat and the performance gains prove that. What is extremely important is the state of tune the engine is in. Then what ECU is being run? In this time of ever increasing emission requirements the majority of products will be developed around those requirements. I've read where some of the ULEV can run at A/F ratios as high as 17:1 and that higher ratios are not too far away. This is a far cry from the low 13s that some of you tune to, or even the 12 that can be encountered on some ECUs.

We are looking for great power, fuel economy, low emissions etc. Some times we are asking for more than what we are capable of building right now. The same goes for header designs. Guys want low end power but also want it to be able to sing 6000 rpms later at 9k.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if some of these problems stem from a rich mixture and then the cat over heats as described above. The handful of cats that I've seen with broken bricks did not have any of the mat material remaining and the few cats that threw CELs were on 00-01 Sis and ITRs. So it seems that a few of the larger cats may not be working in these 00-01 OBDII situations and tuning might help them out.

I have discussed trying other Carsound models, mainly the 93000 series for the CEL problem areas. These cats are similar in size to the 94000 series but use (2) 3" long bricks versus the (2) 2" long bricks in the 94000 series plus they also have more catalyst material on the honey comb substrate which might help lower emissions. However, these cats are a lot more expensive than the 94000 series plus they are not available with the pre welded O2 bungs that you find on the 94166 and 94066 which provide better O2 bung clearance then were the O2 bung was welded to the 94006. But, if the engine isn't tuned properly with these cats I'm sure the same problems will arise.

I did locate a metal substrate cat that was used for racing in Europe but it had a retail price of $1200.

I think anyone using these cars on the track should be using a test pipe and then ONLY use the cat for the street. But, if you tune the engine for peak power for the street which leaves you with rich mixtures then you'll probably have a problem with your cat overheating.

The A. Teo cat I believe is a Carsound 54006, which is not even listed in the Carsound catalog anymore and I believe was replaced by the 94100 and 53000 series cats. The 54006 cat may have seen less problems related to CELs because the honey comb structure is smaller and more exhaust goes through each cell versus being spread out more with the larger area cats.

One last thought/question, has anyone contacted Jeg's to ask why they don't carry the Catco cat anymore? Who thinks it may be due to this same condition? The import and domestic customers of Jeg's who are changing their exhaust systems just might be having the same problems like the Carsound rep wrote about above. But basically, a retailer discontinues the selling of a product for one of three reasons, (1) poor sales, (2) poor realibilty with high returns leading to reduced profits or (3) the manufacturer has stopped producing it and replaced it with something better.




[Modified by SMSP, 2:19 PM 6/30/2002]

 

Here's some info on a dynomax model they're selling at jegs. Is this too short for the jdm headers?
89-15038 2.5'' In/Out, 13.25'' Long $ 52.99

They also have two 2.5" in/out cats from magnaflow, one oval and one round. Both $100

 

I feel the comment regarding the substrate not heating up enough is invalid.

I had problems with two of the Carsound cats I had. One had the brick come loose, so okay the matting got disintegrated (sp?) and it came loose because of

But then my next one started throwing codes because according to Carsound:

I say make up your mind. Is it too hot, or is it not hot enough?

I have a Jet-Hot coated header so I know I am transmitting much much much more heat down the pipping than stock, thus the substrate is heating up enough, there is not question about it.

My opinion is that if Carsound doesn't think they can make cats. that work for for small compact cars then stop making them.

 

...funny, cause the cats that are being used are not made for compact cars... remember that cats for larger displacement engines are being used for modified cars that should be moving more air... people want to spend their money on 2.5" cats, so they get what they want from someone who will build or sell them a 2.5" cat...


[Modified by Zeus, 8:37 PM 6/30/2002]