Hey everyone I just bought my first honda. It was a stolen car that was found without its engine so Ive got a car with no engine. What I want to do is make it my new daily driver. Right now Im driving a 95 jetta 2.0 that I will keep driving until I can finish the hatch then probly give the jetta to my sister since she just got her license. Im not the best when it comes to cars so Im stearing away from FI and big N/A builds. Anyways Ive been doing some research and I think the b20 (146hp) or the LS (140hp) are my best choices for what im going for. I dont want to pay for premium gas and I want a cheap motor with decent torque. Then I will probably go with a b16 tranny and do some bolt-ons. Im just wondering what you guys thought about it and if I should go for an LS, b20, or a different engine. Me and my buddies will be doing the swap btw.

 

for a cheap biuld a ls or b20 would be a great swap you can find them if you lucky for under 500bucks for a longblock the only thing i think i with mention is if you do a b20 which is a light truck engine with a b16 tranny you will run out of gears pretty fast because of the low redline i believe it is 6200rpm and wont get great mileage but should be a fun car to drive

 

It would probably be best, easiest, and cheap to just get the Civic Si engine for your generation (I'm still so bad with D engine codes, Y7?). It's decent power with something like 125 horsepower. But if you're going the B route and don't want to go VTEC or frankenstein then I personally would go LS. Darkclark made a good point about the gearing with the transmission and plus the LS can easily be converted to what's essentially a B18C1 in the future with less work than making a B20 VTEC later on.

 

You have exactly the right idea.

Don't let any of the nut-brains on here try to convince you to do a turbo GSR or some unnecessarily ridiculous crap like that.

You're on the 100% perfect right track.

One thing you're gonna realize from driving the Jetta, is the Jetta 2.0 GLS has a good simulation of torque due to the 8v engine combined with the short as hell transmission (I know how it is man, 4k @ 80mph on a highway). I sold a '00 Jetta GLS to my dad, but I had it for awhile first.

So due to the short gearbox the Jetta GLS feel like it's got torque up the ***, not necessarily speed power, but torque, yeah.

So if you hop into a D16 or B16 civic, you're gonna notice immediately that you're down on torque and need to crank it up the RPM to make power, and it'll **** you off coming from a car which actually knew what torque was.

With that said, for a reliable daily driver with a decent amount of torque is LS or B20 (obviously you've done your homework).

You don't want to do a B20/VTEC like people on here are going to suggest. This is simply because it's like 400 for a B16 or GSR head which will improve your head flow slightly, and you'll need to get it tuned for optimal flow. Other than that it won't do **** for one simple reason:

The B20/LS is made to make torque low, it's a truck motor (and a non-commuter car motor, as the 1.6L SOHC civic is a commuter car), the B16 or GSR head you put on there is made to make all its power up high, so there's a conflict in the cams vs design. The B20 has very mild cams, much like the LS - low torque engines.

In any event, you get a B20 since it's 4WD you need to use a different gear box. People will suggest getting a B16, ITR, or GSR so it's "super fast" - screw that, it's unnecessarily fast for daily driving, and your highway gas mileage = ****, gotta remember, you got 16v now, not the 8v you're used to, so a short trans will rape you on the highway now.

B20 with an LS trans or an LS with the stock LS trans will do quite nicely.

I'm considering a B20 motor / B16 trans for a build next summer, for much the same reason you are, I need low end torque for daily driving, and I can't give 2 ***** about high RPM HP that the B16, GSR, CTR, ITR, etc. produce. That's just me though.

With the LS or B20 you won't need to pay for premium gas, they both use very low compression ratios so 87 octane will be all you need for them to run like a top.

Few notes: Everybody and their brother on here will try to convince you that "turbo is not that hard, just boost it" - don't bother, if it's your daily it's about as necessary as nitrous.

Just keep the build you have now, just note the gas mileage on the highway will be raped, especially if you go with the B20. There's 2 answers to this. You get a decently geared transmission - the LS trans that everybody says is "long" is the same ratios (well very close) to the EX, which is the shortest transmission available on a stock civic besides in the '99/'00 Si which had the B16 transmission. The LS isn't a long trans, it's simply that other B series counterparts are very short.

If I use the B16 trans I plan on using under my possible swap, I plan on swapping out the 5th gear so I don't get ***-raped on the highway. How bad will you get ***-raped? The Z06 vette next to you will be getting the same or slightly better MPG on the highway. Keep that in mind.

You also might wanna keep in mind that 90,000 people on here will tell you to stay away from the B20 because it's "a weak motor" - that's a load of ****. The motor's perfectly strong, and for 500 can you really bitch? In any event, the only reason people blow them all the time is because they slap VTEC heads on them and think they're good to 8500 RPM and then run into problems.

The LS and ESPECIALLY the B20 blocks are NOT revver blocks. They can easily safely handle 280whp, but they're NOT meant for high RPM, so whatever you do, <u>retain the stock redline</u>.

It's a very smart swap if you want a torquey daily driver and aren't all thrown in high HP numbers like most of the other tools in the Honda game.

I say you pick one of those, the GSR is a good combo of torque and HP, but that's a race motor for all intentions, not something I would bother with if you're just looking for a cheap, to the point, torquey, daily.

Just analyze how much highway driving you do before you slap the trans on.

Also, don't buy a Type R opposed to a B16 trans. You pay like 300 dollars extra on the Type R just because it's called a "Type R" while the only thing that's different is the final drive (rear end) ratio.

I've been researching to do the same swap (b20), possibly, come summer, so if you have any questions, you can PM me IM me or something. You can PM I think 10 days after you sign up (trial period ends automatically after I think, 10 days).

Good luck.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by green gawd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey everyone I just bought my first honda. It was a stolen car that was found without its engine so Ive got a car with no engine. What I want to do is make it my new daily driver. Right now Im driving a 95 jetta 2.0 that I will keep driving until I can finish the hatch then probly give the jetta to my sister since she just got her license. Im not the best when it comes to cars so Im stearing away from FI and big N/A builds. Anyways Ive been doing some research and I think the b20 (146hp) or the LS (140hp) are my best choices for what im going for. I dont want to pay for premium gas and I want a cheap motor with decent torque. Then I will probably go with a b16 tranny and do some bolt-ons. Im just wondering what you guys thought about it and if I should go for an LS, b20, or a different engine. Me and my buddies will be doing the swap btw.</TD></TR></TABLE>

f it, just through a 400 dollar long block in it and just drive it, then work your *** off and buy a used lotus..that's what id do if id doit ALL over again................im sitting in a k24/k20 civic..............drove my freinds elise he got for ONLY 35k!!!!!!!!!! and it hauls *** for a little celica engine

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic.slow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

f it, just through a 400 dollar long block in it and just drive it, then work your *** off and buy a used lotus..that's what id do if id doit ALL over again................im sitting in a k24/k20 civic..............drove my freinds elise he got for ONLY 35k!!!!!!!!!! and it hauls *** for a little celica engine </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, do that.

Pay 400 for a long block that has 120whp.

Then later down the line pay another 10,000 for a K24/K20 swap that'll net you a solid 100whp more.

LoL

A) The reason an elise hauls *** is because it, and its older brother the Exige weigh the same amount as a civic, wiwth a ****-ton more horsepower. Though if you want raw power get a Viper. The Lotus's aren't made for "madd HP" nor are they made for "madd VTEC y0" - they're made for handling, and quick power outta the turn, plain and simple. They're autoX and roadcourse cars, not dragsters.

B) How do you mention "civic" and "elise" in the same sentence?

C) Only on H-T could you go from talking about a B20 or LS swap to a K24/K20 hybrid swap.

*sigh*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, do that.

Pay 400 for a long block that has 120whp.

Then later down the line pay another 10,000 for a K24/K20 swap that'll net you a solid 100whp more.

LoL

A) The reason an elise hauls *** is because it, and its older brother the Exige weigh the same amount as a civic, wiwth a ****-ton more horsepower. Though if you want raw power get a Viper. The Lotus's aren't made for "madd HP" nor are they made for "madd VTEC y0" - they're made for handling, and quick power outta the turn, plain and simple. They're autoX and roadcourse cars, not dragsters.

B) How do you mention "civic" and "elise" in the same sentence?

C) Only on H-T could you go from talking about a B20 or LS swap to a K24/K20 hybrid swap.

*sigh*</TD></TR></TABLE>


read it again

-i told him to swap a cheap motor in it

-then drive it, and save up for an elise

reading &gt;you

the reason the k24/k20 came up is becuase i regret starting the swap, i shouldve spent the money on a dwon payment for something that resembles a fast car, not a pieace of **** ecnobox

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic.slow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


read it again

-i told him to swap a cheap motor in it

-then drive it, and save up for an elise

reading &gt;you

the reason the k24/k20 came up is becuase i regret starting the swap, i shouldve spent the money on a dwon payment for something that resembles a fast car, not a pieace of **** ecnobox </TD></TR></TABLE>

The Elise is a good car, I love 'em, but I wouldn't buy one for a daily driver. I'd get something more versatile, like a prez or accord or something, I like the accords because quite frankly, they're built better than the civics. May not be as light, as that seems to be the main concern of everybody in this forum, but the accords are good. So is basically every other "average price import." An Elise is going high scale for him at the moment from the sound of things.

A) They blow on the snow
B) It's too much if you're talking about your current asset being a HONDA SHELL.

Amen to you on that last part though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Elise is a good car, I love 'em, but I wouldn't buy one for a daily driver. I'd get something more versatile, like a prez or accord or something, I like the accords because quite frankly, they're built better than the civics. May not be as light, as that seems to be the main concern of everybody in this forum, but the accords are good. So is basically every other "average price import." An Elise is going high scale for him at the moment from the sound of things.

A) They blow on the snow
B) It's too much if you're talking about your current asset being a HONDA SHELL.

Amen to you on that last part though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i live in socal, so the ONLY snow i see is at big bear which is artifical for the skiers and snowboarders.

he does have a shell, so i said F it and just go get a cheap motor off of craigslist, to A drive it to work and get some gas milage and spend like 2 bucks a week on maintence.

then sell it on here for a profit.......there is NO point in building it.

unless your doctor charles or something chances are you will never get it fast....

BTW the EXIGE series 2 goes for about double than the ELISE series 2, they have toyota engines in them, they dint have alot of horsepower, they are pretty much stock with new tune...... header and intake manifold to make SOME more power than a celica. but you have toyota reliablity in a SUPER car shell.........that car = sex

the ELISE is the convertable targa top looking thing while the exige is the low slung hard top, same motor the exige is lighter (obviously thus bringin in more money)

i have an accord, not bad.......40 bucks a week driving to school and back 60+ miles everyday, i got the 97 ex so it has 4wd +abs + tint to get that hot cali sun out of my car LOL

was actually pretty hot today

looking to get leather in it so its more confrotable

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic.slow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i live in socal, so the ONLY snow i see is at big bear which is artifical for the skiers and snowboarders.

he does have a shell, so i said F it and just go get a cheap motor off of craigslist, to A drive it to work and get some gas milage and spend like 2 bucks a week on maintence.

then sell it on here for a profit.......there is NO point in building it.

unless your doctor charles or something chances are you will never get it fast....

BTW the EXIGE series 2 goes for about double than the ELISE series 2, they have toyota engines in them, they dint have alot of horsepower, they are pretty much stock with new tune...... header and intake manifold to make SOME more power than a celica. but you have toyota reliablity in a SUPER car shell.........that car = sex

the ELISE is the convertable targa top looking thing while the exige is the low slung hard top, same motor the exige is lighter (obviously thus bringin in more money)

i have an accord, not bad.......40 bucks a week driving to school and back 60+ miles everyday, i got the 97 ex so it has 4wd +abs + tint to get that hot cali sun out of my car LOL

was actually pretty hot today

looking to get leather in it so its more confrotable </TD></TR></TABLE>

You don't have to explain the difference between the exige and the elise to me, I know.

All I'm saying is that the elise isn't a daily driver in my opinion. I don't agree with the statement "put a 400 dollar motor in there and then save up money until you can afford an elise."

I explained my point of view in that novel I wrote at the top, refer to that.

 

thanks for the replies. Ok so it looks like b20 or LS is what im gonna go with. Can anyone tell me which engine responds best to basic bolt ons, which is easier to swap in, and the weight difference between both engines? The car is a 98 hatch btw.

 

Honestly, bolt-on's don't really do anything but make more noise.

The only way you'll see any kind of gain from bolt-on's is with a chipped/tuned ecu (I got my chip from phearable.net...I'm running a GS-R in my '94 hatch and the chip/tune made more of a difference than the bolt-on's).

If you're bent on getting bolt-on's, I wouldn't **** away money on "name-brand" parts...unless you're building an all-out race motor, a $1,000 header isn't going to do too too much for your stock LS or B20.

I'm not too familiar with B20 swaps, but the LS swap is essentially a plug and play type deal...and the weight difference should be minimal at best.

 

LS motor for sure. the torque is amazing. b16 tranny would be a nice touch to it.

 

LS FTW!! thats the route im headed. Ima keep the ls trans as well. Theres nothing wrong with it and if i decide to go boost in the future its a perfect match.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diLLy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS motor for sure. the torque is amazing. b16 tranny would be a nice touch to it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Malakai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS FTW!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

You guys care to elaborate on why I should choose the LS over the B20?

 

Theyre essentially the same motor so whichever u can get for cheaper really. I used to have an rs teg and i loved that car. it was pretty quick for what it was.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Malakai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theyre essentially the same motor so whichever u can get for cheaper really. I used to have an rs teg and i loved that car. it was pretty quick for what it was. </TD></TR></TABLE>

um no not same motor lol one is a 1.8 and one is a 2liter last time i checked go but go ls sounds like would best suit you. Though, if one day you might decided to make it fast for na get the b20 now or if u decide someday you might want boost get ls just my 2cents

 

ever consider a h22? can get a long block for about 1100 then get a h2b kit for about a grand then get a ls tranny for 200 then another 300-500 of lil crap parts you could do it im sure for under 3k if you look hard stock 200ish hp with 160trq best of both worlds

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by diLLy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS motor for sure. the torque is amazing. b16 tranny would be a nice touch to it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Opposed to the B20 which has more torque?

Not sure how you claim an LS is a better decision over a B20 due to torque.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JKov240 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly, bolt-on's don't really do anything but make more noise.

The only way you'll see any kind of gain from bolt-on's is with a chipped/tuned ecu (I got my chip from phearable.net...I'm running a GS-R in my '94 hatch and the chip/tune made more of a difference than the bolt-on's).

If you're bent on getting bolt-on's, I wouldn't **** away money on "name-brand" parts...unless you're building an all-out race motor, a $1,000 header isn't going to do too too much for your stock LS or B20.

I'm not too familiar with B20 swaps, but the LS swap is essentially a plug and play type deal...and the weight difference should be minimal at best.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know, Bisimoto claims a 10% increase in whp tuned. Though that's like a 700 dollar header. For your typical DC Sports and Greddy crap, bolt-ons won't do jack.

Maybe put a good try Y header on it and a slightly more aggressive camshaft with a better flowing exhaust/cat, get that **** dyno tuned and you can probably pick up 15-25hp.

Key word on camshaft = "slightly"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekBlackHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

um no not same motor lol one is a 1.8 and one is a 2liter last time i checked go but go ls sounds like would best suit you. Though, if one day you might decided to make it fast for na get the b20 now or if u decide someday you might want boost get ls just my 2cents</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Malakai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theyre essentially the same motor so whichever u can get for cheaper really. I used to have an rs teg and i loved that car. it was pretty quick for what it was. </TD></TR></TABLE>

read the key word there obviously i know the displacement diff.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know, Bisimoto claims a 10% increase in whp tuned. Though that's like a 700 dollar header. For your typical DC Sports and Greddy crap, bolt-ons won't do jack.

Maybe put a good try Y header on it and a slightly more aggressive camshaft with a better flowing exhaust/cat, get that **** dyno tuned and you can probably pick up 15-25hp.

Key word on camshaft = "slightly"
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know about you, but when I do "performance" mods, I want to see a difference...but on small displacement Honda motors, unless you're spending big bucks you won't see any whoppin' gains.

But let's add this up...$700 header and let's say $400 for a tune...you're looking at $1,100 for 10whp. That's $110 PER wheel horsepower gain. True, picking up 10whp in a small displacement motor is a feat, but that feat doesn't make you faster than the other guy.

I'm running an eBay replica header on my car for 3 reasons...1) the exhaust manifold on my GS-R had a crack in it to begin with, 2) it was cheaper than a new manifold, and 3) a turbo is in my future as funds become available. Like I said before, unless it's a *****-out build and you have a nice wallet, your typical bolt-on's won't do too too much.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekBlackHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">um no not same motor lol one is a 1.8 and one is a 2liter last time i checked go but go ls sounds like would best suit you. Though, if one day you might decided to make it fast for na get the b20 now or if u decide someday you might want boost get ls just my 2cents</TD></TR></TABLE>

Minus that .2 liters of displacement, they're essentially the same motor.

 

i knows my bad i read through it 2 fast sorry but what you guys think about a h22 vs the rest? only like 600 more and stock it would rip nice and gas im sure would be not to bad but i have never owned a h

 

h22 is a nice swap, just a lil more involved than what this guy is looking for thats all. Theres the hastle with the shift cables and axles and all.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by green gawd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the replies. Ok so it looks like b20 or LS is what im gonna go with. Can anyone tell me which engine responds best to basic bolt ons, which is easier to swap in, and the weight difference between both engines? The car is a 98 hatch btw.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would guess the b20 would respond a little better to bolt ons with it bieng a 2.0 instead of a 1.8 but Im not sure. As far as which is easier to swap in I would think they are both really easy bieng B series motors. And as far as weight difference well I dunno but once again b20 is a 2.0 and the LS is a 1.8 so Im guessing the b20 weighs a little more.

 

I had a full LS swap in my 94 coupe with a few bolt-ons. It wasn't fast but if your'e just looking for a peppy daily driver, it's the way to go. LS swap +bolt ons+ good suspension= a fun daily driver. It would be fun even with out the bolt ons