It's 3 degrees outside. Everything is frozen, and we just had a snow storm yesterday. Time to bench race.

Has anyone gotten on the track with an elise/exige? How did you do? post your mods. I've always wanted to track up with one of those cars, but never get the chance. Every time I see them run, i'm very impressed....especially if the driver knows what he/she is doing.

I AM TALKING ABOUT ROAD RACING. AutoX comments wouldn't be bad either.

 

B Serious.... LOL

Why don't you just compare lap times with them?

 

I haven't driven against a Lotus, but I will mention that it is 90% driver skill when you're on a road course. Usually when you're out there on a track, many people are newbies and inexperienced, even though they have nice cars (S2000s, Elises, Porsches, etc).

On my first few HPDE events, there were a bunch of cars out there ranging from fully track prepped Porsches and M3's to daily driven Jettas and Corollas. Since my event segregated drivers into similar skill level (versus car type), I was able to "race" against some Porsches and other track prepped cars.

I am proud to say that I "beat" 2 Porsche Turbos and one track prepped M3 that day. Of course I passed the other "normal" cars, and the only one that was faster/had more skill was an 07 350Z (with an intake). With all the forum reading that I had been doing, it seemed as though the 350Z is pretty much dead even with the S2000. Might be an interesting thread if we also included 350Zs in the mix.

Obviously with similar driver skill, the Lotus should beat out the S2000 after a lap or so.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by papa5murf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B Serious.... LOL

Why don't you just compare lap times with them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

well sometimes at HPDEs, people dont have a transponder. I dont know any of the owners personally. Plus....it's a frozen wasteland outside. I dont wanna wait 6 months before I get a lap time comparison. I miss driving my S2000 lol. Bench racing is as close as it gets. I haven't driven the car for 2.5 months or something.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamoo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I haven't driven against a Lotus, but I will mention that it is 90% driver skill when you're on a road course. Usually when you're out there on a track, many people are newbies and inexperienced, even though they have nice cars (S2000s, Elises, Porsches, etc).

On my first few HPDE events, there were a bunch of cars out there ranging from fully track prepped Porsches and M3's to daily driven Jettas and Corollas. Since my event segregated drivers into similar skill level (versus car type), I was able to "race" against some Porsches and other track prepped cars.

I am proud to say that I "beat" 2 Porsche Turbos and one track prepped M3 that day. Of course I passed the other "normal" cars, and the only one that was faster/had more skill was an 07 350Z (with an intake). With all the forum reading that I had been doing, it seemed as though the 350Z is pretty much dead even with the S2000. Might be an interesting thread if we also included 350Zs in the mix.

Obviously with similar driver skill, the Lotus should beat out the S2000 after a lap or so.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, driver skill is an important factor. It's also hard to single out unless you get the same adept driver in both cars. I caught up to a 350Z (he had tires, intake, and exhaust, I had tires, intake, and springs) at gingerman last year. I started from the back of the lineup (probably like 3rd car from last). He was way up front. I think he was only running maybe 1-2 cars deep from the front. I caught him (within about 300 feet or so) towards the end of a 20 min session. I would have been able to be at least bumper to bumper if not pass him within about 1 to 2 more laps. He seemed like a pretty good driver.

 

i ran against one but it wasnt on a track.. CANYONS..... he was in front of me but i maintained on his *** the whole way..... he had a faster exiting speed as we would come out a turn he would pull a bit on me but i would catch up real fast

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by S@nt0s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i ran against one but it wasnt on a track.. CANYONS..... he was in front of me but i maintained on his *** the whole way..... he had a faster exiting speed as we would come out a turn he would pull a bit on me but i would catch up real fast </TD></TR></TABLE>

are you making fun of the thread or is this for real?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

are you making fun of the thread or is this for real? </TD></TR></TABLE>

im being serious.... it was for a few miles here in the santa monica montains, i push my car more then i think i was comfy with but the car stay on all 4's. i think on a real track he would have pulled more on me with faster lap times but not crazy faster

 

I just remember going to the autobahn club for a track event. There was a black exige that always runs with this alfa romeo club. There were a ton of alfa race cars that were trailered to the event. Granted, these were cars from like the 70s, but they were TRAILERED RACE CARS on slicks. The Exige came around on ALL of them. Started out almost dead last, ended up 1st when the checkered came out. The guy could really drive, but the ability of the car itself was awesome as well. The best thing is that the car was BONE STOCK...and driven to the track, driven on the track, and back from the track on the same 4 tires. Granted, they were A048Rs...but still. It's cool you can whoop on almost everything with a showroom stock car.

 

I'm going to take a guess and say that an Elise will beat an S2000, and an Exige will rape an S2000 on the track. Those cars have fully functional bodies and only weigh 2000lbs. They are handling machines.

 

Also, the newer exige S is supercharged, and there is also a track model out now. Saw one at spring mountain in NV on some sort of race rubber, and he just about raped everyone in the run group.

 

we've had a few exiges race at our track, they are always fast, especialy with k20as in them

a very quick s2k was a few seconds off the pace tho from the k20a exige... i mean the thing ran 11s downt he quarter with a STOCK motor so you can bet on it handling corners VERY well

stock exige/elise with average driver is quite on par with an s2k and a mad driver


my old k20 ek in action vs lotus exige, behind me 300wkw eg hatch

 

i plan on getting an exige or a nsx for my next car. when i saw the track model exige at a show i fell in love.

 

^ same here. Next car will have to be an Exige or NSX. Good choices

 

^^^X53129818
I have been thinking the same thing too.

But the Exige would have to have a k20 in it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^X53129818
I have been thinking the same thing too.

But the Exige would have to have a k20 in it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A K20 would be nice. However, they're still REALLY fast with the supercharged 2zzfe in them. They put down about as much as a NA K20R, IIRC.

 

i agree, doesnt matter which motor to me.

 

I dono guys?? I think I would still rather have the k20 just cause of Hondas reliabilty. Im not saying Toyota is not reliable but comon Im a Honda guy lol.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dono guys?? I think I would still rather have the k20 just cause of Hondas reliabilty. Im not saying Toyota is not reliable but comon Im a Honda guy lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

blah
Toyota at heart ALWAYS... bult 2rz/3rz will murder that K, or a nicely done 3SGTE

 

I have had my *** handed to me by an elise this past autox season.....

given we are not in the same class, but those things are fast on course.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A K20 would be nice. However, they're still REALLY fast with the supercharged 2zzfe in them. They put down about as much as a NA K20R, IIRC. </TD></TR></TABLE>

so what happens when you SC the K20A?!!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A08_MThrizzle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so what happens when you SC the K20A?!!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Too much power, too little car. There needs to be a good balance of everything if the car is genuinely going to be fast around a track.

 

I've tracked and Solo'd a couple different Elises and many S2000s, so I think I can answer this question with some authority.

Driver skills is overwhelmingly important on the road course. The second fastest car at our last track day was a turbo Mini on R-comps. The Mini driver and I were turning times about 2-3 seconds faster than anyone else that day (the Mini turned in 1:32.8 on R-comps, 1:33.X on RE01R)

The Elise driver in the data is good, but not quite as quick as I am. We codrove at the last Solo, and I was about 1.5 seconds faster on a 44 second course, running on street tires.

I'll say this: the Elise is setup up for R-comp tires from the factory. It's tuned that way, and works best that way. It suffers greatly when handicapped with street tires, even as good as the RE01R. I ran another Elise (shod with Hoosier A6) at a very competitive Solo (open diff model) and the car was probably a couple seconds faster than my S2000 would have been on street tires, and still a tick quicker than my S2K on R-comps. I've since installed springs, I think that given the same R-comp rubber and equal drivers, that the stock Elise is at least as quick around a Solo course as my mildly modified AP1. I've Solo'd an Elise on 3 occasions, twice on R comps and once on RE01Rs. It's really an amazing little car, but is finely tuned for R-comps. In general, I find all the Elises I drove to understeer more than I like, but it's nothing that a change in driving style can't compensate for. In particular, it took me a while to get the open diff Elise to turn-in well for me.

On the track, we haven't been able to eliminate the driver variable, but the straight-line GPS data we have suggests that my car can match the acceleration of the stock Elise until about 4th gear, where the Elise really starts to pull ahead (look at the peak speeds on the straights).

http://exit3.i-55.com/~brian/l...n.zip

This is a comparison of our GPS data, with me in my AP1 against the stock Elise. I'm driving much harder, but this is the fastest Elise lap we have on record. My lap was 4.5 seconds quicker (1:32.1 vs 1:36.5), and I suspect that given equal drivers and R-comps, a stock Elise would be able to match my time without much trouble (I currently hold this track's record, but I'm not the fastest driver: I am in the top 10% of our Solo club, and have a pretty decent track setup. The Mini driver, in my car, would have put a full second on me easy, and the GPS data suggests that my car has at least two more seconds left on this track).

At this track, we also have data on an A-stock AP1 on street tires, driven by someone who is better than any of us (probably the best Solo driver in Louisiana). He turned a 1:36.0, and we're fairly certain there's no time left in that car on those tires (RS2). R-comps would probably be good for about more 3 seconds.

The Elise Mods:
All stock Sport Model (LSD) on Bridgestone RE01R tires

My mods:
Engine: AEM V2 intake, Stock header, Stock mufflers, Test Pipe, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, ACT HD clutch, 199.9 rwhp on DynoDynamics
Suspension: Ground Control Sleeves on Eibach Springs, 380 lbs/in Front, 340 lbs/in Rear (+75%F, +15%R), Stock front and rear sway bars, Stock shocks
Wheels and Tires:
17x8+48 front ASA FR1, 235/45-17 Toyo RA1 (10% life left)
17x9+63 rear ASA FR1, 275/40-17 Kumho V710 (30% left)
Weight & Trim: Estimated 2745 lbs. No spare tire, jack, or tools. 1/2 tank of gas, Trailer hitch

In conclusion, I'd say that a stock S2000 vs a stock Elise (given a similar track and equal drivers) that an Elise is couple seconds faster per lap, largely due to the stock R-comp Yokos on the Elise. Give the S2K some R-comps, and I say it's a virtual tie, though A-Stock legal mods would give the S2000 another 1.0 seconds or so. I find that the Elise is surprisingly tight even being mid-engine, and the S2000 is almost always loose. The Elise is easier to drive fast. The S2000 requires a very skilled driver to track quickly: mods that increase stability will pay big dividends in driver confidence.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Too much power, too little car. There needs to be a good balance of everything if the car is genuinely going to be fast around a track. </TD></TR></TABLE>

isnt the atom relatively lighter than the elise? So wouldnt the added weight be justified with a blower?

I know . .. apples and oranges. To be honest it just shows how some of the small displacement Honda engines are fantastic compared to others. Too bad small N/A displacement with mediocre power was the thing .. back in the 90s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Too much power, too little car. There needs to be a good balance of everything if the car is genuinely going to be fast around a track. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't agree with you in the case of the Elise.
Stock, the Elise can use more power in the midrange, just like the S2000. Filling up the torque curve on either would do wonders on the track. I'd find myself driving off-cam and short shifting because the VVTI kicked in too hard and I'd go all elbows. A supercharger would give a nice beefy midrange. and really take advantage of the momentum driving that the Elise is so good at.

 

I kept up with one at SOW, on A048s, which kinda levels the playing field. You can't really touch it unless you're running similar tires. He gets a good 1-1.5 seconds on me per lap at Laguna Seca because the walls scare me.