OK. I'm planning on getting either a EG Hatch or EF Sedan. With this setup, which car would handle better autocrossing? Would it be "that" much of a difference?

The Setup:
B18B Motor+B18C Tranny
Full-Race ProStreet Stage 2 Turbo Kit
Skunk2 70mm Exhaust
Hondata S200
PWR Radiator
Quaife LSD
ACT Street Disk and Heavy Duty Pressure Plate
Walbro Fuel Pump
550cc Injectors
Greddy Profec B Spec II Boost Controller
Short Shifter
Koni Yellow Shocks/Ground Control Coilovers
Lower Chassis Brace
Front Struct Bar
Front Lower Struct Bar
Lower Rear Struct Bar
Rear Upper Struct Bar
Traction Bars
16in Slipstreams wrapped on BF Goodrich tires

 

I think you need to stop and think about what class you want to run in.
With a turbo, this will put you in a division that might be a little crazy.

Find out what class those mods will put you in.. and then look at what you will be competing against.

Then decide if those mods are worth it.

It's always best to start with a stock car... and learn to drive... before you start throwing money and parts at a car. You will most likely have a more productive and competative racing experience.

 

Yep, what are your goals? Have fun? Be competitive? Get into roadracing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crazydave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think you need to stop and think about what class you want to run in.
With a turbo, this will put you in a division that might be a little crazy.

Find out what class those mods will put you in.. and then look at what you will be competing against.

Then decide if those mods are worth it.

It's always best to start with a stock car... and learn to drive... before you start throwing money and parts at a car. You will most likely have a more productive and competative racing experience.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Any division is fine with me. I just like the open tracks, where anyone races there cars on the track. and of course, i'm not gonna get ALL of these parts ALL at once and drive it. in most cases, it's a part by part thing, BUT like i said before, those are the mods i WANT to get as my goal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, what are your goals? Have fun? Be competitive? Get into roadracing?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Goals?

To have a FAST drag car, at the same time, quick around the corners. And like always, to be a sleeper that is VERY competitive!

 

I think he meant "realistic goals", and forgot to include the qualifier "budget". So let's try that again, shall we? One car can't do it all. Suspension settings that work for a drag car do not work well on an auto-x car or a road-race car.
btw you can lose all the strut bars, they aren't going to help you nearly as much as you think. My pick goes to the EF Sedan because nobody does it, while everyone and their mother drives an EG hatch project.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My pick goes to the EF Sedan because nobody does it, while everyone and their mother drives an EG hatch project. </TD></TR></TABLE>
x2

I've always thought an EF 4-dr would be a cool road race car. (And I have never, EVER, liked the look of the EG hatch.)

 

I meant goals as in what you want to do WITH the car, not what you want the car to be capable of. But, since you went there, as PIC brought up, your car can't do all of that. The fastest track Hondas I know of are H1 cars. Figure ~220whp, 150-160lb/ft. I guess Bernardo's Integra is probably the fastest right now, at something like 250-270whp and 180lb/ft? These are all-motor cars using all OEM engine parts, to give you an idea.

Alternatively, the fastest autox Hondas I know of are either way simpler (Rodney's old hatch: relatively stock B18C5, ATS gears, good header, some cams I think) or very well-engineered FI, like Jaker's supercharged D-series. They also run ridiculously huge tires, which require serious fender modification, and are not at all conducive to street driving.

It sounds like you're leaning towards the track stuff, so you'll face some complications with your plan. For one, a turboed track car is not nice. You'll have reliability problems and will break stuff. The heat from the turbo will cook wiring, body parts, coolant hoses, etc. You'll break axles, toast brakes and go through tires faster than normal. You'll have wheelspin issues in turns, and will have the capability of being REALLY fast at the end of the straight, which will require a lot of brakes, and will be intimidating. You'll have exhaust leaks, manifolds will crack, etc. You get the idea, and the idea is that it'll be a PITA.

I think you should reconsider your motor options with something a lot tamer. And not turboed. However, if you're really dead-set on it, check out Don's hatch, which is the best turbo track Honda I've seen yet. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2618185 He's putting down right around 250whp I believe.

As for your car choice, the benefits of an EF over an EG will be lower overall height (not kidding). And if you want the sleeper look, that'd help too I suppose. An EG would have a little bit of an easier time with suspension and engine mounting stuff, but I know it's doable on an EF. So really it's your call.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I meant goals as in what you want to do WITH the car, not what you want the car to be capable of. But, since you went there, as PIC brought up, your car can't do all of that. The fastest track Hondas I know of are H1 cars. Figure ~220whp, 150-160lb/ft. I guess Bernardo's Integra is probably the fastest right now, at something like 250-270whp and 180lb/ft? These are all-motor cars using all OEM engine parts, to give you an idea.

Alternatively, the fastest autox Hondas I know of are either way simpler (Rodney's old hatch: relatively stock B18C5, ATS gears, good header, some cams I think) or very well-engineered FI, like Jaker's supercharged D-series. They also run ridiculously huge tires, which require serious fender modification, and are not at all conducive to street driving.

It sounds like you're leaning towards the track stuff, so you'll face some complications with your plan. For one, a turboed track car is not nice. You'll have reliability problems and will break stuff. The heat from the turbo will cook wiring, body parts, coolant hoses, etc. You'll break axles, toast brakes and go through tires faster than normal. You'll have wheelspin issues in turns, and will have the capability of being REALLY fast at the end of the straight, which will require a lot of brakes, and will be intimidating. You'll have exhaust leaks, manifolds will crack, etc. You get the idea, and the idea is that it'll be a PITA.

I think you should reconsider your motor options with something a lot tamer. And not turboed. However, if you're really dead-set on it, check out Don's hatch, which is the best turbo track Honda I've seen yet. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2618185 He's putting down right around 250whp I believe.

As for your car choice, the benefits of an EF over an EG will be lower overall height (not kidding). And if you want the sleeper look, that'd help too I suppose. An EG would have a little bit of an easier time with suspension and engine mounting stuff, but I know it's doable on an EF. So really it's your call.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for your input! Well, my setup isnt that much different than Don's turbo hatch. The turbo kit he runs is the same as the one i want to get. He has a b18c1, I got a B18B w/B18C1 tranny. As for his internals, yeah, i want those also, but it gets pretty pricy. With the setup i want, it'll cost around/close to 10k, not buying anything used or ebay, just straight forward cost. I'm already approved for a 10k loan, but I'm just waiting to pay off some bills first before i add anymore.

 

If money is tight, the LAST thing you want is to have a lot of it tied up in a track car. While it's rare, you have to accept that the possibility of totalling it is there. You should also plan on your insurance not covering it, unless you know for a fact that they will and have confirmed it with them. The old saying goes something like, "if you can't walk away from the car as a total loss, you shouldn't be out on track in the first place." It can and does happen, I can attest to that first-hand. One more thing to consider. If instead you go with a mostly stock motor, save yourself assloads of money and get more tracktime.

Right along with that, be aware that Don needs big brakes to stop that beast. That means expensive brake kit (I think he has Stoptechs), which also might mean bigger wheels and thus bigger tires. That cost to run just keeps going up.

As a sidenote, I will just flat out unrecommend a motor like that for a novice. It's a lot to handle as a driver, and can get you into hairy situations. Don's been doing this a long time (the H1 guys I mentioned previously as well), and can hustle that car pretty damn well. A number of my students have had high-power cars, and all had issues with being intimidated by the car. This matters more for someone who is out there specifically to improve themself as a driver, or is looking to get into wheel-to-wheel competition. If you just want to have fun, run what you brung

Edit: One last thing. Search the archives for posts by Don (mrlegoman) to get an idea of all the problems he's had with tracking a turbo car. You can also talk to ChrisF, who used to have a turbo track car.

 

I think the cost of all the items is close enough to 10k let alone a shell. One step at a time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If money is tight, the LAST thing you want is to have a lot of it tied up in a track car. While it's rare, you have to accept that the possibility of totalling it is there. You should also plan on your insurance not covering it, unless you know for a fact that they will and have confirmed it with them. The old saying goes something like, "if you can't walk away from the car as a total loss, you shouldn't be out on track in the first place." It can and does happen, I can attest to that first-hand. One more thing to consider. If instead you go with a mostly stock motor, save yourself assloads of money and get more tracktime.

Right along with that, be aware that Don needs big brakes to stop that beast. That means expensive brake kit (I think he has Stoptechs), which also might mean bigger wheels and thus bigger tires. That cost to run just keeps going up.

As a sidenote, I will just flat out unrecommend a motor like that for a novice. It's a lot to handle as a driver, and can get you into hairy situations. Don's been doing this a long time (the H1 guys I mentioned previously as well), and can hustle that car pretty damn well. A number of my students have had high-power cars, and all had issues with being intimidated by the car. This matters more for someone who is out there specifically to improve themself as a driver, or is looking to get into wheel-to-wheel competition. If you just want to have fun, run what you brung

Edit: One last thing. Search the archives for posts by Don (mrlegoman) to get an idea of all the problems he's had with tracking a turbo car. You can also talk to ChrisF, who used to have a turbo track car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the input! And most definitely I'll search for Don now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dirty19 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the cost of all the items is close enough to 10k let alone a shell. One step at a time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what i said right.

 

You know, for the turbo bit, you could start tracking with just the LS motor. That's a great track motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You know, for the turbo bit, you could start tracking with just the LS motor. That's a great track motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, Oscar Jackson prefers the non-VTEC engines for forced induction. Less cam overlap and lower compression...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by just_hatched &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK. I'm planning on getting either a EG Hatch or EF Sedan. With this setup, which car would handle better autocrossing? Would it be "that" much of a difference?

The Setup:
B18B Motor+B18C Tranny
Full-Race ProStreet Stage 2 Turbo Kit
Skunk2 70mm Exhaust
Hondata S200
PWR Radiator
Quaife LSD
ACT Street Disk and Heavy Duty Pressure Plate
Walbro Fuel Pump
550cc Injectors
Greddy Profec B Spec II Boost Controller
Short Shifter
Koni Yellow Shocks/Ground Control Coilovers
Lower Chassis Brace
Front Struct Bar
Front Lower Struct Bar
Lower Rear Struct Bar
Rear Upper Struct Bar
Traction Bars
16in Slipstreams wrapped on BF Goodrich tires

</TD></TR></TABLE>

ED 4 shore! Nice looks of an E30i BMW with lightweight platform. Thats what my project track car is a '90 Civic DX sedan...



Skip the 16" wheel/tire combo and go with wide 15 wheel/tire setup....

You are going to need an upgraded front brake system with anything more than the stock motor. Fastbrakes has Integra brake setup for not too bad a price which clears 15" wheels...

Stick with the D-series motor...DOHC ZC for B18 power without the weight increase from B-series motor, transmission, and driveshafts.

2000lbs, 130-150hp, and wide sticky tires will be major excitment on track or autocrossing; Insane fun in the corners, even with the stock open differential. Our '90 Integra RS is extremely quick in the technical turn 10-13 turn complex at MSR-Houston and it has the stock B18A motor and LS transmission with open differential, weighs almost 2300lbs, and rides on 225/45-15 Nitto NT-01s. The high performance RWD cars with wide sticky tires (Vette Z06's/Ford SVT Cobras/BMW M3's/Mazda RX-8's and the like on Hoosier/Kumho DOT-R slicks) have a very hard time gaining any ground in turns 10-13...they just can't take as tight a line at nearly full throttle through most of that section. Takes a SPEC miata to keep up in the back technical section. The Civic can only be faster with less weight and slightly more power than a stock integra...! Rather than add power, remove all unnecessary weight to improve acceleration, transitional response, and grip.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ED 4 shore! Nice looks of an E30i BMW with lightweight platform. Thats what my project track car is a '90 Civic DX sedan...



Skip the 16" wheel/tire combo and go with wide 15 wheel/tire setup....

You are going to need an upgraded front brake system with anything more than the stock motor. Fastbrakes has Integra brake setup for not too bad a price which clears 15" wheels...

Stick with the D-series motor...DOHC ZC for B18 power without the weight increase from B-series motor, transmission, and driveshafts.

2000lbs, 130-150hp, and wide sticky tires will be major excitment on track or autocrossing; Insane fun in the corners, even with the stock open differential. Our '90 Integra RS is extremely quick in the technical turn 10-13 turn complex at MSR-Houston and it has the stock B18A motor and LS transmission with open differential, weighs almost 2300lbs, and rides on 225/45-15 Nitto NT-01s. The high performance RWD cars with wide sticky tires (Vette Z06's/Ford SVT Cobras/ Mazda RX-8's and the like on Hoosier/Kumho DOT-R slicks) have a very hard time gaining any ground in turns 10-13...they just can't take as tight a line at nearly full throttle through most of that section. Takes a SPEC miata to keep up in the back technical section. The Civic can only be faster with less weight and slightly more power than a stock integra...! Rather than add power, remove all unnecessary weight to improve acceleration, transitional response, and grip.</TD></TR></TABLE>

which site is that where you can custom your civic with different types of rims?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by just_hatched &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

which site is that where you can custom your civic with different types of rims?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Combination Tirerack and "Photoshop". You are not going to find any suitable wheels for serious track duty at tirerack or discount tire which are cost effective though... the best way to go for proper 15x8 ultralightweight wheels is HERE

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Combination Tirerack and "Photoshop". You are not going to find any suitable wheels for serious track duty at tirerack or discount tire which are cost effective though... the best way to go for proper 15x8 ultralightweight wheels is HERE</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, they may be wide and light, BUT they UGLY as hell, no offense thou. Not a big fan of "flower" style rims.

 

It's one of those wheels where a side profile picture does not do it much justice... really need to see it in real life 3D to appreciate it. But yeah not everyone likes the same things. Don't know where else you are going to get a perfect fit 15x8 wheel for an ED that cost $150, weighs less than 13lbs, and can take the stress of a track environment on wide DOT-R rubber...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's one of those wheels where a side profile picture does not do it much justice... really need to see it in real life 3D to appreciate it. But yeah not everyone likes the same things. Don't know where else you are going to get a perfect fit 15x8 wheel for an ED that cost $150, weighs less than 13lbs, and can take the stress of a track environment on wide DOT-R rubber...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think I'll just stick with 15x7s.

 

Yeah, 15x7s will be fine. Rotas work, the Koseis on Tirerack work.

And Thawley, I remember hearing that before. It's too bad he gyped the non-VTEC guys with that crummy M45 blower on the old kits.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, 15x7s will be fine. Rotas work, the Koseis on Tirerack work.

And Thawley, I remember hearing that before. It's too bad he gyped the non-VTEC guys with that crummy M45 blower on the old kits.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I'm leaning towards either 15x7 Slips or either 15x7 GT3s.