If you were to engineer a Turbo-specific engine, would It be a durable & beneficial design to have a turbocharger housing, integrated into the block of an engine? as in, the Iron or Aluminum block is cast with the turbo casing as a joined part of it?

Things like the exhaust/intake piping and turbo internals would still be cast or "formed" seperately to allow for heat expansion.

your thoughts?

 

in the block, no. where would the exh ports and valves be?
possibly the head, kinda like the rdx would be a little more viable.

i just have a vision of a s.b.c. and dont see anywhere you could even get the exh down through the block.

or maybe a flat head? 2 stroke?

 

you would have to reduce/merge the exhaust ports on the head and put a T3 flange on the head that the turbo bolts to.

This would work better on a Suburu motor....

 

It would be a horrible idea for a multitude of reasons. The reasons however are too elementary for me to get into right now.

 

I thin he ment head, not block.

the biggest draw back that i see, is the limitations of not being able to change the turbo.And if something cacks or breaks, then ur buying a whole head/turbo

 

edited below post!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedcivicsir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in the block, no. where would the exh ports and valves be?
possibly the head, kinda like the rdx would be a little more viable.

i just have a vision of a s.b.c. and dont see anywhere you could even get the exh down through the block.

or maybe a flat head? 2 stroke?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The exhaust and intake system would remain the same as normal using traditional style heads with an exhaust manifold, and standard style intake runners , it would just route to the cast-in-place turbo lower on the block, just picture a typical setup, but the turbo has been molded into the block..

my reasons for why this could be a good setup:

a) engine coolant can easily be piped through as an extension of the current coolant system.
b) would provide a huge improvement in structural integrity, allowing for higher then usual boost pressures (though this has to co-inside with beefier internals as well)
c) could use engine oil as lubricant without having additional external lines
d) ease of manufacturing and installation compared with traditional setups

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaredKaragen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you would have to reduce/merge the exhaust ports on the head and put a T3 flange on the head that the turbo bolts to.

This would work better on a Suburu motor....</TD></TR></TABLE>

there would be no bolting of any turbo, see above... it is already cast into the block.

a boxer engine would be a very good type to use, but inline and banked engines would work equally as well.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speed Industry &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It would be a horrible idea for a multitude of reasons. The reasons however are too elementary for me to get into right now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll be patient for your response.

 

if my thinking is flawed in any way I would like to know!

 

so when you need a rebuld...you ship in your whole motor...gay

 

- Heat tranfer
- ability to replace cracked housing
- Ease of access
- precision required for exhaust manifold to line up perfectly
- excessively high cost of replacement block
- un mod-able
- Break from standardized part structure aleady in place

And I'm sure if I spent more than 1min. thinking about it there would be WAY more reasons it's a terrible idea.

Sorry man this was not your edison moment.

 

First off, something that would be designed specifically for boost wouldn't ever merge the turbo with the block. Diesels are designed to almost always have boost (albeit low power output most of the time), and they always have a separate turbo.

The main problem would be materials. Cast iron that contains lots of nickel is what you want for the turbine housing, and it can be costly, whereas using regular cast iron block would be very cheap.

The main reason that you see **** 'integrated' like SRT4 manifold/turbos and the like is because of space restrictions and not caring about it failing after a few years. **** that makes a lot of power ALWAYS has modular components. The reason modular **** isn't always great on a Honda is because there's never any stress relieving done, almost no R&D done to find the best option, etc.


BTW I think boostedcivicsir is looking at the question wrong, and the OP doesn't understand how a turbocharged engine really workds.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW I think boostedcivicsir is looking at the question wrong, and the OP doesn't understand how a turbocharged engine really workds. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats kinda rude to just through that out there, because I know exactly how it works, and while I haven't owned a boosted car, I know about the theory.

I guess alot of you just don't understand what I mean clearly enough.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
- Heat tranfer
- ability to replace cracked housing
- Ease of access
- precision required for exhaust manifold to line up perfectly
- excessively high cost of replacement block
- un mod-able
- Break from standardized part structure aleady in place
</TD></TR></TABLE>

- Heat transfer Coolant system would be used thats already in place in the engine
- ability to replace cracked housing cracked housings would be only as common as a cracked block, since the housing is a structural part of the engine. and would be vastly stronger then a typical unit
- Ease of access good point, but alot of current setups are no peice of cake either
- precision required for exhaust manifold to line up perfectly True. Mandrel bends would help, also extremely high tolerances would be necessary from the casting process, which most modern engine manufactures already have
- excessively high cost of replacement block another good point, although it would be much cheaper then replacing both block and turbo individually, since having the casting process combined would be economical
- un mod-able [not so, turbine wheels can be changed inside the housing[/B]
- Break from standardized part structure aleady in place yes, but thats not a bad thing especially if you are a manufacturer that already makes parts, since you now don't have to make as many individual components

 

The heat transfer would not be solved by having the coolant system integrated...

The amount of heat sitting in a turbo after running for a while is WAY WAY higher than the engine would EVER get upto... the cooling system would not be able to keep up period.

The cracked housings do in fact happend and if you want a reliable exhaust turbine housing it better be cast iron... if you want a light efficient engine block it better be cast aluminum... joining the two could not be more complicated if not impossible.

The more complicated the cast the more expensive... doing a block and a turbo seperate would be MUCH cheaper... also the tooling required doesn't exist as NO ONE has done this before. It's WAY cheaper to source a turbo from an established company and pair it to a normal block.

Do you even have a sketch of what you're thinking about? because I can't even wrap my head around WHERE on the block you want to integrat it???

Earlier you said it would be good for a boxer engine??? How so? the boxer engine block is 100pct obscured by the intake on top and the oil pan on bottom... where/how would you integrate a turbo into that block? you also realise that boxer engines aren't even one piece right? they seperate in the middle around the crank... also since the heads are on opposite sides of the engine you would need 2 cast turbos i/o just running headers into the one external turbo... which would not facilitate quick spooling or high boost. a 1.8-2.5liter dual turbo isn't the smartest setup.

But hey... EVERY major manufacturer told Honda he was crazy thinking he could adjust the valves to get more power/better milage... and look how that turned out...

Maybe your WAY ahead of your time... but I don't think so.

The new VW GTI 2.0 FSI's have the Exhaust turbine houseing integrated into the exhaust manifold I think that's as integrated as you're going to get.