What turbo setups are people running for road coarses. What boost at a low rpm's but still is efficiant at 8000 for a b16? Any feedback would be appreciated

 

disco potato.
but i have never road raced. so i hope others chime in.

 

On B18C1s GS-R motors, I've used GT2871R, On our EK, we used a Borg-Warner K3T, and disco-potato. On another customer's K20R engine, it was a 50 trim turbo that was used for the larger displacement. There are quite a variety of smaller turbos that are used in road racing. it depends upon the motor and setup. On road racing, 300whp is MORE than enough, but you must make sure that the supplemental equipment can take the abuse that the car will go through during sessions.

 

kind of pricey but bad ***. I was thinking a t3/to4e but i dont know what trim or a/r would be best.

 

anyone else

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kind of pricey but bad ***. I was thinking a t3/to4e but i dont know what trim or a/r would be best. </TD></TR></TABLE>

if you go with that... get a 50 trim and a .48ar exhaust housing

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone else</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, these were just examples. In road racing, we've found that because the oil goes through so much punishment (honda engines are EXTREMELY dependent upon correct oil to lubricate EVERYTHING) using the ball-bearing series of turbos helps with worrying about one more component that needs more oil. the water-cooling jacket really helps in situations like road racing, but this is for serious punishment. For the b16, a journal bearing turbo can still work, but definately keep it small, about 50 trim or even lower like GT3251 (journal bearing) or like was stated eariler a 50 "trim". If you plan to use the car for double duty, stick with the .63A/R. In road racing, you don't need more than about 230whp on most tracks anyway, so a lot of power isn't needed up top, its the torqueband that you want to have. This is why I listed what I did in terms of choice. If you notice, they were different turbos for different displacements, and engine types. If you want to road race, you gotta pay to play. That's no joke.

Hope that explains my rationale a little.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What turbo setups are people running for road coarses. What boost at a low rpm's but still is efficiant at 8000 for a b16? Any feedback would be appreciated</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is the setup I'd go for:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2618185

Look at the videos at the bottom, seems like it's working very well.

The owner is a member of this board:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1315396

 

50 trim makes power down low, but is is still efficient at high rpms?

 

the .63 a/r on a t3 t4 50 trim shouldnt have problems choking up top if used for a mild road racing setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">50 trim makes power down low, but is is still efficient at high rpms?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It'll be fine...i would talk to TheShodan about the GT3251e. It would be a little better fit for your goals IIRC. My GT3255b that TheShodan built for me spools low and pulls through redline.

If you're going to build a setup for Road Course racing, i would definitely suggest something like the SLS Shorty that i run. It, in combination with my GT3255b, spools low and pulls hard through 8400rpm. It would be a great setup on a B16.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It'll be fine...i would talk to TheShodan about the GT3251e. It would be a little better fit for your goals IIRC. My GT3255b that TheShodan built for me spools low and pulls through redline.

If you're going to build a setup for Road Course racing, i would definitely suggest something like the SLS Shorty that i run. It, in combination with my GT3255b, spools low and pulls hard through 8400rpm. It would be a great setup on a B16. </TD></TR></TABLE>


High rpm in road racing is rather rare on my tracks designed for HPDE (unless you're at button willow or lime rock). Your power will fall before the turbocharger (if correctly chosen) falls out of its range anyway. Its about torque in road racing, not power. You'll have more than enough for that type of racing. The area you MUST look at is your braking, suspension, than POWER.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


High rpm in road racing is rather rare on my tracks designed for HPDE (unless you're at button willow or lime rock). </TD></TR></TABLE>

wait, i'm a little confused, are you arguing that it is rare that you'll be at high rpm on a road course?

i've driven at pacific raceways, reno-fernley, thunderhill, sears point, buttonwillow, big willow and the only place i've ever dipped below ~5500 rpm consistently was at reno turn 11, and it only dropped down to 5000. other than that, the car has always been at 6000+ rpm

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">kind of pricey but bad ***. I was thinking a t3/to4e but i dont know what trim or a/r would be best. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a t3/to4e, 57 trim on my H22. It works great, stays in boost well(7 psi), and withstands the abuse. I went with this turbo because it's relatively small, spools quickly with my combination, and keeps power throughout the RPM range. As addressed earlier, brakes, suspension, tires are all other factors to consider. I've seen underpowered H3 and H4 walk more powerful H2 cars. Handling, stopping, and tire combination are way more important in road racing than power output.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WrongWD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wait, i'm a little confused, are you arguing that it is rare that you'll be at high rpm on a road course?

i've driven at pacific raceways, reno-fernley, thunderhill, sears point, buttonwillow, big willow and the only place i've ever dipped below ~5500 rpm consistently was at reno turn 11, and it only dropped down to 5000. other than that, the car has always been at 6000+ rpm </TD></TR></TABLE>

No. My point is whether you're at higher rpms or not, on some tracks, it doesn't mean that you're in full LOAD when at that high rpm. His torqueband is more important than his power at that point. Pacific raceways are a bit longer than ours here in the Midwest, so it depends upon the course. There are a lot of tracks here in which we do drop below 4000, on some courses.

 

I was looking intoThe t3/to4e 57 trim and .63 a/r because of its lower spool time but, I also have a chance to get a used greddy 18g turbo kit for my ek. Has anyone used an 18g? Good spool time or high end power.


Modified by ekpilot at 10:05 PM 12/10/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was looking intoThe t3/to4e 57 trim and .63 a/r because of its lower spool time but, I also have a chance to get a used greddy 18g turbo kit for my ek. Has anyone used an 18g? Good spool time or high end power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The 18g is smaller than the 57 trim so it should spool faster. Also, i guess i dont know your exact goals, but the GT3255b that TheShodan built me is more or less a 57 trim that spools up faster. Its a good little turbo for the street...i cant say how it performs on a road track though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekpilot &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I was looking intoThe t3/to4e 57 trim and .63 a/r because of its lower spool time but, I also have a chance to get a used greddy 18g turbo kit for my ek. Has anyone used an 18g? Good spool time or high end power.


Modified by ekpilot at 10:05 PM 12/10/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think the 57 trim would be a mistake for a road course setup on a b16. its made for 400+whp when you only need 250whp.

a 50 trim .48 a/r would be nice or a gt28rs if you can spring for the ball bearing. the 50 trim will still pull strong to redline and give you a solid powerband from 4.5k+

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike@synapse motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i think the 57 trim would be a mistake for a road course setup on a b16. its made for 400+whp when you only need 250whp.

a 50 trim .48 a/r would be nice or a gt28rs if you can spring for the ball bearing. the 50 trim will still pull strong to redline and give you a solid powerband from 4.5k+</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. For a smaller displacement motor like the B16, a 57 trim would be a little large for road racing. HP is a concern because it's real easy to overpower a track. Without an LSD, good tires, or a decent suspension, you'll find with lots of power you'll be spinning coming out of the turns.

 

cool. The only reason I was thinking of a bigger turbo with 57 trim and 63.a/r is I heard somewhere that small a/r and trim turbos arent as effiecient at high rpms. having a high reving b16, I figured it would be important to have a turbo's max effieciancy be within the peak power band of the motor. But then again having power down low would make up for its lack of torque.

 

You guys love your big turbos huh?

Simple turbo: .63/.60 T3, GT28r, GT28rs, Mitsubishi new 16g(the ones on the newest Evos)

T3 will be turbine and compressor limited on some level but is small, can make 280-300whp, and is cheap. The main issue will be the fact you will need to run about 15-17psi to net that kind of power which will increase IATs thus make intake heat soak an increased probability. Could be an issue.

GT28r is slightly larger than the T3, is less compressor and turbine limited, still can make almost 350whp on it, good throttle response, pretty cheap still. Probably see 300whp in the 12-15psi range.

GT28rs is really an optimal choice. Great throttle response. Awesome size. Make the power you need around 12psi. Very efficient. Downside is they are expensive.

Evo turbo. Easy to find. Not expensive. Split turbine offers great powerband. Can make more power than you need. Efficient. Really good turbo for you.

You could also look into more odd ball matches. I'd be afraid to put a Stage III turbine on your car. Throttle response would be awful for road racing. Turbine is too large. Maybe something along the lines of a stage I T3 turbine wheel with a 46 trim T04e wheel with a .82 housing on the T3 would work well.

 

Thanks for all the info guys