like topic?????

 

I saw where someone was fabbing one up a year or so ago, I don't remember the user name. It was a pretty big topic so you might be able to find it by searching.

 

http://explicitspeedperformance.net/TBS.html about half way down.

 

I recall our friendly moderator (PrecisionH23a) talking about both the PFI and ESP bars some time ago and said both of them had "issues".

*shrug*

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recall our friendly moderator (PrecisionH23a) talking about both the PFI and ESP bars some time ago and said both of them had "issues".

*shrug*</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can't speak on the PFI bar because I have no personal experiance with it. As far as the ESP bar goes I have no issues with it. I have used and abused this product for the past two years with not a single problem. Also now *user* rosko uses this product also with great results.


IMO if you have not used it personally then how can you possibly have an accurate view on something. Hear say is just that hear say!

 

I made my own. I would make and sell them if I had the time and resources.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IMO if you have not used it personally then how can you possibly have an accurate view on something. Hear say is just that hear say! </TD></TR></TABLE>

I would presume in the same way that a structural engineer could look at the blueprints of a house and know that it would fall down without actually building it and sitting under the roof to see if it collapses.

Of course there are other measures of quality. The engineer could design the perfect building and have it collapse anyway due to shoddy workmanship. So there is definitely an aspect of product quality that can't be determined just by appearances.

The thread that Anthony made his comments in was also related to suspension dynamics, and along those lines I believe your feelings on the matter and his comments are not necessarily impossible to reconcile. But that's just a guess.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would presume in the same way that a structural engineer could look at the blueprints of a house and know that it would fall down without actually building it and sitting under the roof to see if it collapses.

Of course there are other measures of quality. The engineer could design the perfect building and have it collapse anyway due to shoddy workmanship. So there is definitely an aspect of product quality that can't be determined just by appearances.

The thread that Anthony made his comments in was also related to suspension dynamics, and along those lines I believe your feelings on the matter and his comments are not necessarily impossible to reconcile. But that's just a guess.</TD></TR></TABLE>

F.Y.I. The single bolt to the LCA was addressed and updated damn near 2 years ago. Again you have no personal experience with it and your going off hear say what can you show and or say about the bar that shows it is does not function properly? Or are you just going to say more woulda coulda shoulda and you heard or read this and that. Meanwhile that cars that are actually on the track and using this produce seem to love it.

My 2 cents: It seems to me that the ones sitting behind the computer typing producing nothing but negative feedback on things they know nothing about first hand. Do more harm to the sport then good. IMO people need talk less trash and actually go out and trying something on there own. Since it looks so good on paper it must be easy so why not make it a reality?!

 

I have the PFI setup and it has been great for about a year or so now. The only issue I had was the heim joint that attaches to the cross member was too thin for the length of bolt it was mounted on so it was allowed to move side-to-side a little bit. A few bushings in there and everything is fine. Oh, and it does sit very low, but that's something you get used to

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Again you have no personal experience with it and your going off hear say what can you show and or say about the bar that shows it is does not function properly? Or are you just going to say more woulda coulda shoulda and you heard or read this and that. Meanwhile that cars that are actually on the track and using this produce seem to love it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe you haven't noticed, but I have not made any claim as to personal knowledge about whether or not any of these bars are good or not. I don't own one and I have not done enough learning to really know what the problem(s)** with the bar(s) are.

I am simply relaying to the OP previously posted information by a respected and knowledgeable member of the forum. He can do what he wants with it. If I was in his situation I'd love to have as much information as possible about something before laying down the cash.

Calling something hearsay in this circumstance is a considerable stretch. All the "hearsay" out there is easily recovered via the infamous search tool. A more valid concern might be the origins of the opinions cited, but in this case I think they come from a good as source as any.

If you want to go tell Anthony that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or just suggest that he's wrong, or say that ESP traction bars are great for driving in a straight line or anything else (I don't know, remember?), that's perfectly fine. I'm certainly not in a position to dispute that. All these paragraphs are mostly for the purpose of defending myself.


**if any problems exist

 

I was pretty impressed with the Explicit bar. Both quality and performance wise. If its good enough for Roger its good enough for anyone else.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I recall our friendly moderator (PrecisionH23a) talking about both the PFI and ESP bars some time ago and said both of them had "issues".

*shrug*</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only issue (ifi its even an issue) I've seen with it is the heim joint touching the damper fork when the lca is all the way down. It pins its so the radius rod cannot twist freely. As soon as you move the lca slightly up the joint moves freely again. Its not that big of a deal since as far as I can tell, the joint does allow the lca to go all the way up and down. It's very close though, it looks as if there is not much more room for it to move. I think they should have designed it like the civic traction and used a bracket instead of bolting the hiem joint directly to the lca. It doesn't have as much range of movement as a civic traction bar. But it's been drag race tested repeatedly by a 10 sec car and the joint hasn't snapped yet, so what more could you want?

 

I wish someone would make this for the SH model. Has anyone put one on an SH because as far as I know it hasnt been done.

 

You just made that big useless statement which proves my point. YOU have no firsthand knowledge of the subject. AKA "hear say"

As far as PrecisionH23a goes he has his out mouth. The last time I checked he doesn't need a spokesman. He reads every thread. We (PrecisionH23a / Myself) are allowed to have different views on things. Though 97% of the time we are on the same page. F.Y.I we do talk often and neither one of use are going to hold back are words.

As far as driving in a straight line. That has to be the most close minded statement you could have made. It takes more skill to do it correctly then you would think. And also the car is used on some badass auto X cars also. Again your making untrue statements on things you know nothing about. Thank you come again.


How can that be ?? according to A blue Lude I am not a and I quote " a respected and knowledgeable member of the forum"

I am sure he has a 9 second prelude which he also auto X's and snapped this thing like a twig 20 mins after he installed it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As far as driving in a straight line. That has to be the most close minded statement you could have made. It takes more skill to do it correctly then you would think.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously, how are you getting "drag racing requires no skill" out if me suggesting that cars that go in straight lines have different requirements, and/or can get away with different things than cars that turn. For all your ranting about "hearsay", etc, you seem to love putting words in my mouth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by A Blue Lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Seriously, how are you getting "drag racing requires no skill" out if me suggesting that cars that go in straight lines have different requirements, and/or can get away with different things than cars that turn. For all your ranting about "hearsay", etc, you seem to love putting words in my mouth. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You know what you win I am a retard I give up. Please no more IM's H-T preluders I will simply refer you to A Blue Lude

 

I've got an SH and I just fitted my ESP trac bar on!! haha The key is to change the LCAs to BASE ones! I ended up swapping BASE LCAs, UCAs, knuckles, and V-Forks to make everything like up correctly. Cost me $150 shipped for the parts! Well worth it if you have an SH and want that bar!

 

I have the ESP traction bar, it fit perfectly the first time, and has worked great!

-G

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KrazzyKarl27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got an SH and I just fitted my ESP trac bar on!! haha The key is to change the LCAs to BASE ones! I ended up swapping BASE LCAs, UCAs, knuckles, and V-Forks to make everything like up correctly. Cost me $150 shipped for the parts! Well worth it if you have an SH and want that bar!</TD></TR></TABLE>

What is a V Fork ? Where did you get the parts ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KrazzyKarl27 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've got an SH and I just fitted my ESP trac bar on!! haha The key is to change the LCAs to BASE ones! I ended up swapping BASE LCAs, UCAs, knuckles, and V-Forks to make everything like up correctly. Cost me $150 shipped for the parts! Well worth it if you have an SH and want that bar!</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking that would work in my head just never bothered to say anything

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What is a V Fork ? Where did you get the parts ? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say he is talking about the wishbone ( where the front strut bottom slides into) that bolts to the LCA

 

on a more serious note. hey roger as to installation direct bolt on any modification needed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by M2B4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on a more serious note. hey roger as to installation direct bolt on any modification needed?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I assume you mean the ESP bar. It's a direct bolt on. What I do reccomend is getting a 4WA right after install for someone who knows that there doing. Set the front caster first, with the bar its gravy you can set it bang on. Then remeasure to redo your caster steer and go ahead with your normal toe/camber adjustments startng in the rear

 

cool thanks. already been planning on a alignment on all 4.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by md23vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I assume you mean the ESP bar. It's a direct bolt on. What I do reccomend is getting a 4WA right after install for someone who knows that there doing. Set the front caster first, with the bar its gravy you can set it bang on. Then remeasure to redo your caster steer and go ahead with your normal toe/camber adjustments startng in the rear

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Roger how do you even go about measuring the caster? toe in/out and camber seem easy but whats involved in doing caster? I mean I know what it is... basically the angle of the lower ball joint to the upper but what kind of setup can check that out?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Roger how do you even go about measuring the caster? toe in/out and camber seem easy but whats involved in doing caster? I mean I know what it is... basically the angle of the lower ball joint to the upper but what kind of setup can check that out?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Caster is the measurement between the front bumper and the front tire and the fender( where the mud guard is ) and the rear for the front tire. Kinda of hard to put in words but pretty much how far forward or rearward the tire is to either side. It's easy to adjust with the ESP bar just loosen both locknuts on the radios rod/forward arm and twist it in or out to your desired spec. All these things make a difference when trying to get traction mainly in the 60ft and the 330 where all your ET is

Caster can be some what adjusted on a stock front front beam by removing the washer on the end of the radious rod, or installing a washer depending which way it's out.

Caster is overlooked by alot of shops and would be mechanics. That's why I say there is a BIG difference between a mechanic and a Technician . Make sure you get a before and after reading of your car also if you cant do it yourself. Make sure you don't get a toe and go (set the toe let it go)

You could always come to MD and I'll do it for you. Also add a few tricks in learned with the bar myself