i have a stock b18c-r and am upgrading the cam to a jun2 intake cam. i've read that the valvetrain should match the cam but $700 to spend on jun stuff is a bit much for me . so my question is, has anyone had any experience with the omni power head package: springs/retainers/valves? i read that changing valves is useless due to the increase in weight, but the omni description of their valves is

Omnipower B Series High Compression
BVTEC Valves- HI $ 190.00
B Series intake valve tips are designed to prevent mushrooming & the stems are cut for increased flow and reduced weight (Just like Type R). They are a 2 piece design like OEM. Upper stems are made out of SUH-11 and the heads are made out of NCF-751 (Inconel) to withstand extreme temperatures.

The description doesn't say how much the compression increase is, does anyone have any idea? would that increase be ok for my plans?

Thoughts/Opinions? thanks

 

According to the rep i talked to at Supertech, their valves increase CR 0.005 per valve, so about .08 bump for a 16 valve set. I don't think omni or skunk valves would be much more of an increase.

 

any thoughts on the springs/retainers?

 

Omni himself says the increase is .3 to .4. I run his entire valvetrain (valves, springs, retainers) in my car. Never a single issue with any of his products. Highly reccomend.

 

How do omni, skunk2 and other brands say their valves bump up CR by .3-.4 and supertech claims only a .005 bump/valve = .08 for a 16 valve engine. How much more different are the valve faces? i ain't trying to argue but i base my CR calculations based off of what the supertech rep told me.

 

CC a chamber and find out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CC a chamber and find out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

so true...

why ask or speculate, when you can test and be 3millonth percent sure?

good god

 

thanks for the input

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so true...

why ask or speculate, when you can test and be 3millonth percent sure?

good god </TD></TR></TABLE>

3 Millionth Percent = 0.00003%

CC it with a pipette

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itralex &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

3 Millionth Percent = 0.00003%

CC it with a pipette</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah 0.00003% isn't much to be sure of. I have electronic pipettors at work, but I don't have a spare head and different brands of valves. I would be interested to see the outcome though, different companies claim anywhere from .08 to .4 increase in CR.

 

the change is going to be a percent.
you can't give a flat number.

 

You can also possibly lose compression w/ flat faced valves, or even have your comp remain the same. Anyone care to speculate how this could be?

 

Each time you do a valve job the the valves are sunk farther in the head.

 

FYI: I know a few of the top guys who will not touch the OMNI valve train...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Natural Aspirations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Each time you do a valve job the the valves are sunk farther in the head. </TD></TR></TABLE>

X2 agreed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Combustion Contraption &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CC a chamber and find out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

we actually did. the exact compression increase depends on your engine size. but basically a b16 will see about .3 increase and a b20 will see about a .4 increase.

I also posted some info in the FI forum about titanium that might be good for people to know in here.

While that may be true for most titanium retainers on the market but certainly not all of them. Titanium is a complex alloy and very process sensative. Also there are many different grades of titanium each having unique charactersistics and strengths.

In the past 3 years i have studied titanium extensively and the strength of titanium alloys can vary from 90,000 psi to over 240,000 psi depending on the grade or type of alloy used. For comparison the strongest aluminum alloy (7075-T6) is only about 83,000 psi UTS (ultimate tensile strength).

A few of the common grades are Grade 2, ELI, and Grade 5.

Grade 2 and ELI are about the same strength wise 110,000 PSI. they are generally an easier to machine but weaker/softer material. Also this material has faster gauling.

Grade 5 (hence the name) is about 120,000 psi and 140,000 psi in anealed condition. Its more difficult to machine and the cutter speeds have to be slowed down also the cutters dont last as long the harder the material gets. This material also has a better resistance to gauling.

The grade 2 alloy is less expensive than a grade 5 alloy as well.

Im not here to bash on the competiton, but we have found, after looking at most of the titanium retainers on the market that most companies use grade 2. A few companies use grade 5, not many. The grade 2 titanium is just too soft for making retainers out of if you want any sort of longevity. Its easy to spot the stuff made out of less expensive grade 2 because it generally fails like in the pics above.

Omnipower starts with a certified grade 5 6AL-4V alloy then we take it and put it through a 9 hour multi staged heat treatment. That heat treatment brings the tensile strength up to about 165,000-170,000 psi. The HRC (rockwell scale C) hardness is about 36-37 vs 20-25 for lower grades of titanium. The complex heat treatment and additional time required for machining add to the cost of production, but the end result is a bullet proof retainer.

Some of the benefits of Omnipower retainers over other brands.
-Superior strength
-Extremely wear and gaul resistant vs lower titanium grades.
-50% lighter than OEM retainers (6.9 grams)
-can be used for daily driving, road racing, drag racing and all other forms of motorsports.
-can be used with high pressure springs for forced induction applications where increased spring pressure is needed for applications that combine high boost,high rpm, and aggressive cam profiles.
-.050 inch (1.25mm) added seal to retainer clearance for high lift cams


For comparison you can see the difference in color between the heat treated bar and a finished product. The bar after heat treatment has a purple tint to it vs the machined axle which is silver.




This is one of our titanium bolts made from the same material we use for retainers and axles. We bent it as far as we could in a vice with a 3 foot pipe well over 45 degrees without breaking. it has a fair amount of memory or spring back as well.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Natural Aspirations &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Each time you do a valve job the the valves are sunk farther in the head. </TD></TR></TABLE>



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omniman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we actually did. the exact compression increase depends on your engine size. but basically a b16 will see about .3 increase and a b20 will see about a .4 increase.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There you go. Straight from the horses mouth. Not that youre a horse, steve.

FWIW - I put a little over 30k on OMNI valvetrain. That includes his dual springs, valves and ti retainers. In that time, the package saw probably 50-60 dyno pulls and alot of aggressive street driving. Lash was checked frequently, as was ret wear. The engine never missed a beat.

 

What a suprise turned right into and advertisement....

 

i call that information with evidence.

 

You have to love an industry where the manufacturer/seller of a product will come on to a forum and provide good information to the end consumer.
Makes me wish that I was running Omni stuff!

 

See PM

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">See PM </TD></TR></TABLE>

wtf?

Are you cheating on me?

 

A little, have you ever seen him in tight Wranglers?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DonF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A little, have you ever seen him in tight Wranglers?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don, do you have anything in your shop that gets hot enough to burn that mental image out of my head?

 

so what grade titanium does rm use for their retainers? please pm me if this info is too sensitive to be disclosed here