Well I just went to change my oil and I noticed that its really foamy, chocolate milk like. This is after only starting the motor a handfull of times after the rebuilt head. And the head was pressure tested and milled. Im running a thinner headgasket. The block however was not machined at all. I bought the motor off of someone awhile back. Initally it appears to be coolant in the oil. However the plugs are blackish and smell like gas (basemap running rich). And the coolant in the radiator still looks like normal coolant no tint to it at all. And the radiator did get hot while idling. Coolant temp was only at around 150 degrees though so im not sure if the thermostat opened yet but there was pressure building in the system. I also checked cylinder number one with a leakdown test and it came out under 10% cold. And i did a compression test on all cylinders and got over 200 psi on all varying about 10% which is more than I would like. The headgasket was brand new however. Anybody ?


Also im not sure if the o2 sensor normally gets white if you have a bad headgasket or warped head but it was just blackish, normal color for running rich.

 

always deck the block

Definitely sounds like coolant in the oil to me.

 

it was within spec i checked the deck with a straigh edge and feeler gauge. I forgot to mention that.

 

Well either way you came out with coolant in your oil. Time to replace the HG.

 

its brand new. It shouldnt be the problem.

And if it was the headgasket shouldnt it be burning coolant. Therefore the plugs should be whiteish and the coolant brownish. Or does that not necessarily have to be the condition ? Like could oil and coolant just be mixing and not getting into the combustion chamber. However I would think it would have to go both ways. If the coolant got into the oil then the oil would have had to get into the coolant.

Also the foamy oil didnt smell like coolant at all not that that means very much though.

 

could it be condensation from it sitting for a long period or foaming from overfilling, the level was slightly high ?


Modified by lude98SH at 8:15 AM 11/27/2007

 

If it was very very overfilled, like above the windage tray, the crank would splash through and the wind could create some foamage, but I doubt that would make the entire pan like chocolate milk.

Remember that the water jackets could easily be leaking into the oil returns and nowhere else, having a bad headgasket doesn't necessarily mean it is altogether bad, you can just have isolated sections of leakage.

That is why I recommend to always deck the block, even though it is within spec the way you measured it, there could be warpage elsewhere that doesn't show up with a simple test like that.

 

what about moisture ?

Im also running a single layer Headgasket, so im sure that makes it more possible.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If it was very very overfilled, like above the windage tray, the crank would splash through and the wind could create some foamage, but I doubt that would make the entire pan like chocolate milk.

Remember that the water jackets could easily be leaking into the oil returns and nowhere else, having a bad headgasket doesn't necessarily mean it is altogether bad, you can just have isolated sections of leakage.

That is why I recommend to always deck the block, even though it is within spec the way you measured it, there could be warpage elsewhere that doesn't show up with a simple test like that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So your saying that a leakdown test wouldnt catch that either, only if it was getting into the combustion chamber ? However if your plugs are fine and no white smoke out the exhaust. Along with no oil in the radiator and using that dye **** on the overflow and it all turns out good how could you say headgasket. There is usually a diagnosic procedure other than looking solely at the color of the oil to say where the problem may lay.

 

The bottom line is, if you have milky oil, then there is coolant getting in there somehow . Could be a head gasket, could be a crack or leak somewhere, but either way that's what makes milky oil.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lude98SH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> However I would think it would have to go both ways. If the coolant got into the oil then the oil would have had to get into the coolant. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is not neccesarily true because the cooling system becomes pressurized much higher than the oil, so if even if there is a little hairline crack somewhere it can squeeze it's way through into the oil.

 

well i know if its a crack its not in the head, so its either headgasket or cracked block.

However the car has been sitting filled outside for a few months. August or so, from what im reading is moisture causes the same thing to happen. Because like i said it never fully warmed up. Also coolant level is normal.

 

In that case you might change the oil and see if the new oil starts to get foamy...

 

Correct, a leakdown test cannot find leaks between the water jacket and the oil returns.

If your next oil change gets milky, pull the head. I personally would be very hesitant to drive it at all now but that's up to you, you could easily spin a bearing with watery oil.

 

ive only driven it around the block. Its not tuned yet.

And correct me if im wrong, oil pressure is almost always higher than coolant pressure. Look at a radiator cap they usually have the pressure on there. Its usually 13-16 psi, oil pressure is alot higher than that. Plus the coolant pressure still was not extremely high, coolant temp wasnt even 150 or around that. At that temp water wouldnt evaporate. So wouldnt that defeat that theory of coolant in oil and no oil in coolant ?

 

Oil returns are open passages. Only the feeds have that oil pressure.

 

then wouldnt the coolant level have gone down ?

 

Most likely yes, has it not?

Did you check the overflow to make sure it wasn't pulling it all from there?

Did you check it fully cold?

 

yes its up to the fill line. And yes i checked it cold and the radiator is also full and green. Not brown or foamy or milky.

 

You sure somebody didn't just squirt dish soap in your vc to **** you off?

 

haha no, but thats almost what it looks like. The car has sat though for about 3 months with that oil in it not ever running.

Would having a thinner HG make this easier to occur ? Say I was running an OEM 3 layer would some warpage in the head be taking up from the extra material ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hawkze_2.3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The bottom line is, if you have milky oil, then there is coolant getting in there somehow . Could be a head gasket, could be a crack or leak somewhere, but either way that's what makes milky oil.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

not totally true. VW's have a problem where they just pull in outside moisture and they get a tan foam all thru their VC. i believe they determined it was from moisture getting in thru the connection to the intake. just food for thought... ive never seen this be an issue on a honda tho.

 

i actually just talked to a few other mechanics and they said that subaru's have some problems with that also along with some GMs.

I ran the car again and checked the plugs again. Plugs are black and gas smelling. On top of pistons looks dry. I pulled the thermostat to get a good look at the coolant in the block and it was green and normal. Coolant level hasnt moved. Oil came out after the change still foamy but not as bad. I also pressurized the system and its holding pressure . So i think Ive cover just about everything except maybe using the dye on the radiator or coolant overflow neck, but without any signs of coolant in the combustion chamber that would most likely be a waste of time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marks_lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

not totally true. VW's have a problem where they just pull in outside moisture and they get a tan foam all thru their VC. i believe they determined it was from moisture getting in thru the connection to the intake. just food for thought... ive never seen this be an issue on a honda tho.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's interesting...where do they pull it in from I wonder? Moisture in the air?

 

It's probably condensation inside the crankcase from lack the of fully warm-up. The engine didn't have enough heat to evaporate the moisture. I've experienced milky color under the oil cap from driving only short distance for a week (under 2 miles). That's the same reason why it's necessary to change the oil more often for cars that are used for short trips.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's probably condensation inside the crankcase from lack the of fully warm-up. The engine didn't have enough heat to evaporate the moisture. I've experienced milky color under the oil cap from driving only short distance for a week (under 2 miles). That's the same reason why it's necessary to change the oil more often for cars that are used for short trips.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That makes sense. I was mainly talking about if all of your oil is milky...dipstick, PCV valve, oil cap, in the oil pan, etc...then you have some other issues.