comparing LS to GSR integras for autocross purposes, is the slight advantage in low end torque of the b18b more valuable than the significant high end horsepower of the b18c?

what is the potential for a maxed out base integra in STS?

thanks for your insights,
phil

 

I'm no expoert, but my feeling is if you're comparing the RS/LS to the GSR, go with the GSR. I've been struggling (locally) in G Stock with my LS this year, usually several tenths behind a VW. At the last event I borrowed a GSR, threw on my 14" race tires (not strictly legal to do in Stock, but I okayed it with the other competitors), and beat my competition by 5/10ths. The GSR didn't feel that much faster than the LS, but I think the additional horsepower and the higher redline are more an advantage than the few extra foot-pounds you might get with the RS/LS.
Now that's not to say an Integra is a winner in STS. I don't know, since I've never looked into that, but I think if you have a choice between a maxed out RS/LS and a maxed out GSR, the GSR gets the nod.

Chris
#55 GS
94 Integra LS

 

It depends on what type of course you're running on. On short twisty layouts, the extra low end torque would be more useful. With courses that has a lot of long acceleration points, the HP of a GSR would be more benificial.

As an example, a friend of mine runs a DSP LS and I have a 2K Si. On the short courses he's quite a bit faster than I am, but on tracks where I'm able to stay in the B16's powerband our times are very close.

 

Personally--and this is just me--I think the RS has every bit the chance that a GSR does--maybe more. The RS has no sunroof and is missing a few other weight-adders that the GSR has. I don't know if your particular model has power windows/locks, abs, etc...and the RS also doesn't have the heavy vtec stuff over the front wheels.

Otherwise, the GSR and the RS will handle equally well, with the favor going to the RS just because it will always be lighter.

I've been waiting for someone to take an RS shell and put the GSR stuff into it and go run DSP. I don't know about doing this in STS, but vtec doesn't make that much of a difference on an autox course IMO.

The only advantage I see the GSR having is shorter gears and a highter redline. The extra torque of the B18B should be able to make up for this though.

 

John Fessler ran an RS in 2000 and finished just out of the trophies at Nationals...
http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...lts/other.html

He sold the car though, and I think ran his Celica last year. Here are some pics of the car... http://members.aye.net/~racerx/johnfessler2000.html

 

Exactly the same thing I've thought of doing !
Unfortunately, per the rules, you can only switch equipment between cars that are listed on the <U>same</U> line in the rulebook, and the "Integra GSR" and "Integra (Not otherwise classified)" are listed on separate lines. Sux.

Chris

 

Wouldn't the GSR's gearing be a major advantage over the base models?

 

"extra torque of the LS/RS/GS motor" If you can read a dyno, you seet eh GSR has more.

Anyway, enigne swaps put you in Street Mod (or better) class. So rule that out. The 8k redline (wider powerband, more HP) and shorter GSR gears help out more than the slight seight savings of an RS or LS Integra would.

If you're choosing a car, take the GSR, if you already have an RS/LS, just LEARN THE CAR. Its 90% driver, 5% car (5% crazy mo-jo).

 

only gears 3-5 are shorter in the gs-r, and i have yet to shift to third on any of the local courses. so gearing isn't really a big deal. the extra 1200 rpm though is, allowing the gsr to go a bit more than 60 in 2nd in a gsr compared to a bit under 60 in my RS.

as for torque, i'd like to see dyno charts. the b18b has slightly larger displacement, so shouldn't it have a bit more low end torque?

phil


[Modified by Philbert, 12:10 AM 6/26/2002]

 

What about the final drive ratio?

 

first of all... why are you running in STS anywaym shouldn't you be running in like DSP or stock class??? n e ways, i did LS/VTEC in my auto-x car, i had to move up to SM, but i'm actuallly doing very well. This only my second year of doing this seriously, and i've been told by a few guys that i look fairly natural on the track, but I really do like that LS/VTEC on the track. the main advantage is that the engine revs higher allowing you pay more attention to the steering wheel, and less to the shift ****. I usally go into 2nd pretty quickly and the LS/VTEC has more low end torque for those lower RPMs, and great power in the higher end. it's a lot of work, and you will have to be re-classed, but i definately think it's worth it

 

LS/RS/GS B18B 1834cc
GS-R B18C1 1786cc
(or something like that, can't rember if those are the exact number)

 

GSR makes more torque above 5000rpms. Below that, the B18B is a stronger motor.

Also, I'd *gladly* take 100lbs less weight and 10 less ft. lbs of torque as opposed to the other. That's a no-brainer for autox.

People just don't realize how much difference weight makes in an autox car as opposed to a few extra HP.

 

why wouldn't i run in STS? i only have intake, exhaust (soon to have header), shocks, springs and sway bar. i'd probably get slaughtered in DSP with prepped Type-Rs and WRXs.

 

the previous owner of my RS added a sunroof which annoys me because of the added weight, decreased headroom when i'm wearing a helmet and the rattles the install left in the roof liner area.

but i don't have abs, power locks, cruise control which all save some weight.

within the rules of STS, is there anything i can get away with removing to save additional weight?

 

hmmm... i ran my heavy *** Prelude (non-SH) last year in DSP against WRXs ( )and a Type R and ran fairly competitive, so i am surprised to hear that you won't run DSP, it is more competive, but i think it makes it more fun. but i really like my LS/VTEC setup on my car, and it runs a lot better all around.... you asked for suggestions so i gave mine

 

the problem with TSSCC is there aren't enough cars in either DSP or STS. The advantage of DSP is I can run on R tires. But it looks like I would still get beat by the WRXs given my current driving skills. I'm thinking of doing an Evolution school the next time it is held nearby and see how my driving improves. If it looks like I'd do better in DSP, I'll consider a switch. Other mods it looks like I'd be able to do over what's allowed in STS are: lightened flywheel, upgraded clutch and limited slip. Anything I'm missing?

Thanks for the input,
Phil

 

Last I saw WRX is ESP and Type R is CSP.

 

You ran against cars misclassed in DSP. The WRX is ESP, and the Type R is still CSP. BTW, you'll need a LOT more $$$ in the car to run with a well-developed nationally competitive DSP car.

BTW, an LS/VTEC Integra would still get slaughtered against a fast SM car like say a 450hp S4, 450hp Supra, 400hp DSM, or a featherweight Civic for that matter. Not trying to bag on you, just the truth.

 

Removing the A/C would be the biggest legal weight savings.

 

unfortunately, that is the hardest thing to give up on a "daily driver."

 

Exactly!

Since the car didn't come with a stock sunroof, you could remove the after market one and get the hole filled. But I don't think the cost of doing it is worth the weight reduction.

 

Of course rip out the spare, jack etc. Low fuel load. Everything from glovebox. No washer fluid. Lightweight wheels. cross-drilled rotors would save you a few grams but aren't worth it. remove stock resonator box when installing cold air intake. lighter exhaust/header system. Remove optional A/C system. Take out floor mats. Really that's everything I can think of...

 

I run my '93 LS in STS in the NW region. I'm currently ahead in the points but I won't stay there unless fix some driving issues. Here are our results http://wwscc.org/results.html . I haven't been to a national event yet because its my first season.

If I were building a STS car I'd use a 2G RS because its power to weight is close to a G3 GSR and I can't afford a GSR. I don't think the extra 30hp is that beneficial in autoX especially since its high end power

 

i'm not sure i'm allowed to change the final drive in STS. can i? what about in DSP?