http://www.bizjournals.com/mil....html

Apparently, this has been in the works for a couple months, but I just heard about it on the news today. HD sales must be declining rather sharply.

 

Quick! Some body buy 1,000,000 Buells!

 

The H.D. bubble has Burst

 

if theyd just git thier heads out of the sand and quit trying to push agriculture equipment as bikes theyd stand a lot better chance of a better market share

 

I agree, they should have been diversifying and investing during their high profit boom. They probably could have begun to take the first steps to eventually become a massive company like Kawasaki, who makes everything from bikes to jetskis, massive merchant ships, helicopters, etc.

Although its really hard to make a statement like that without knowing more about their financial situation during their big boom period.

 

^Don't forget high-speed trains.

While HD certainly is behind the times technologically speaking, that has always been part of their appeal to some people (like my Dad). I would love to see an HD branded sport-bike (not a Buell) packed with a ton of technology and competing in racing. I am not a brand loyal type of person, but as America's largest motorcycle manufacturer I am ashamed of what they offer... America is getting owned in every transportation market by the Germans and Japanese manufacturers except for 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups. I would love to see HD step up and diversify, and innovate. Nobody said that they can't keep building air-cooled slugs that manage to convert gasoline into noise without the side effect of horsepower, but for fun, why not try some new things. I like the V-rod motor (albeit built by Porsche)... more things like that should be built.

 

I love my Harley and so does my Dad...he has a an 07'

I can only blame the general demeanor of the sales staff that is employed at most Harley dealerships. It was the biggest pain in the *** when shopping for a bike. We got the run around at almost every dealer in the Inland Empire area. Mostly from Quaid in Loma Linda.

We had plenty of money for a down and my dad has PERFECT credit. But, it never failed that they either were too busy playing grab a$$ or didn't want to help us. The other thing was...no one would return a call!! Finally we decided to just stop in to Pomona Valley HD which is 3 minutes from my house and there it was.

Overall the staff seems to have a stick up their rear at most dealerships. That scares people away. If they were more inviting...it would probably help a great deal. Now this is the case at almost every dealer I have been to throughout So Cal...So it may be safe to assume this may go on at most dealers.

This is a big deal...if they would work on their approach and sales tactics(or lack of) things would probably be better. Also if their parts were a little more reasonable...they would probably sell a lot more!!! Just my .02

Attitude is everything

Just for the record I previously owned a 929RR for about 4 years...Rode a Harley and fell in love. I miss the acceleration of the RR but, man you can't beat the look of a nice harley dropped on whitewalls with fishtail pipes

Not that I need it(part my wifey doesn't like) but, man I get way more love from the ladies on a Harley than I ever did on the RR

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ktmoffroad72901 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if theyd just git thier heads out of the sand and quit trying to push agriculture equipment as bikes theyd stand a lot better chance of a better market share </TD></TR></TABLE>

They deliver what the customers want.

I really wish you guys would get away from this notion that everyone wants/needs an uncomfortable, high revving plastic wrapped supersport race replica looking thing. I dont like harleys, but to each his own.

 

i think as people get their financial asses handed to them in the housing market, things like harley's and ducati's are going to get harder to move. so will $9000+ 600's, but to a lesser extent.

i never understood why someone would pay 21000 bucks for a harley when you could get a metric cruiser for half the price, with way better numbers. maybe the metrics don't have that intangible cachet (of unreliability and dogmatic brand loyalty), but i'd rather be on a boulevard or a VMAX vs. a electroglide or a soft tail.

 

to say harley is out of date is just ignorant. their bikes have actually come a long way in the past 5-10 years but they have spent a lot of money to hide the new technology so it looks like the bike hasnt changed since they were originally designed. on most models you can get fuel injection, anti-lock brakes, heated grips, cruise control, and maybe traction control but im not 100% about that one. on their touring models you can even get gps, cd/radio, and anything else found on its japanese competitors. the problem is the price. now you can spend 20K on a ducati, but you get the newest and greatest technology, and a racing pedigree that goes back as far as motorcycling has been around which makes the price feasable. hd is surviving on the baby boomer generation who remember hd being the only motorcycle available when they grew up (unless they wanted a scooter...you meet the nicest people on a honda!) but they never reached out to the new markets growing up. in order to survive, harley needs to lower their price, push their history, show off their technology, and build something that appeals to generation x and y. that doesnt mean they have to make a sport bike, but they do have to do something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i never understood why someone would pay 21000 bucks for a harley when you could get a metric cruiser for half the price, with way better numbers. maybe the metrics don't have that intangible cachet (of unreliability and dogmatic brand loyalty), but i'd rather be on a boulevard or a VMAX vs. a electroglide or a soft tail.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like Harley guys say "If you have to ask, then you don't need to know."

There's definitely something about Harley's. I'm not sure what it is, but I even find myself attracted to them. I'll probably own one someday, and it'll sit next to whatever sportbike I have at the time

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i never understood why someone would pay 21000 bucks for a harley when you could get a metric cruiser for half the price</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same reason people buy Ducatis insead of spending less $$ for a ZX 10R or GSXR 1000.

I dont "get" the harley attraction, but enough people do to keep them profitable.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Same reason people buy Ducatis insead of spending less $$ for a ZX 10R or GSXR 1000.

I dont "get" the harley attraction, but enough people do to keep them profitable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

it is similar though, the ducatis have more tangible differences (some consider advantages) vs the gixxer. whether its powerband or weight or even width/size.

but with a hd your paying double for less motor, less brake, less reliability--for what? for the sound? to get ratty harley groupie *****?

i understand the shiny chrome aesthetic, but to me the thing that keeps hd in business is a giant lie, the idea that low-tech motorcycles with the HD on them are worth the money because they are low tech. they deserve credit for finally making FI standard, and for finally making dual front brakes on their 900 lb bikes (not that they're used that much)--it's this "new = bad" attitude which makes them an afterthought.

i mean, only in HD communities will you see people trash the v-rod motor because it's makes the bike "unamerican" (because porsche designed it?) and therefore a sacrelige to ... uh whatever.

anyway, in the end it's not my money.

 

I hate harleys so if they dissappear of the face of the earth it wont bother me one bit.

 

Well the whole motorcycle market is slowing down so it may not be indicative of a problem with Harley in particular. I do think that their narrow focus could be a liability in the future as the next generation of riders skips over Harleys altogether. To hedge against this maybe they could expand into making a naked sport bike or a really cool flat track replica or something (I think they make something like that for Europe).

They should also probably give Buell some more budget so they can de-uglify their lineup.

At any rate they're still massively profitable so its not like the sky is falling just yet.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but with a hd your paying double for less motor, less brake, less reliability--for what? for the sound? </TD></TR></TABLE>

HD has come a long way with reliability and performance - but for a cruiser, the image of the bike is always going to be more important than its speed.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bad-monkey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">to get ratty harley groupie *****? </TD></TR></TABLE>

w00t

 

I agree as far as reliability...my 929rr left me stranded twice Once while in the fast lane....it sucked! And I took care of it and stayed on top of my maintenance! It was clean! Stuff happens!

My HD...keeps on ticking...always starts up for me even after sitting for a little bit when I am too busy to ride. My Dad is on his 3rd HD and has never been left stranded. He does the long haul rides too during the riding season. He'll be gone for days! I also ride up to Monterrey every year...no problems!! He still has the 2nd one and trades off with the new one on his daily commute to work. They are good bikes. Sure they are loud, not the fastest, and not the best on fuel economy...but, we love them.

So to the reliability claim...I call I speak from personal experience.

I also love the fact that I can get close to what I paid for it right back. Wish I could say that for the RR... I got about 1/2 of what I paid and that is not including all the goodies I put on it...like exhuast, carbon wheel/chain guard cover, power commander, flush mounts, integrated turn signals, and undertail kit....I lost big time.

I can get $10-11k for my bike as it sits...it was probably about $16k new when it was purchased back in 1989...talk about return on investment. It's 18 years old!
Try selling a 1989 metric cruiser... back then they looked like the Wesley Snipes Passenger 54 edition...your lucky just to be able to give one away and how many do you honestly see still on the road??

 

lol

Email'd this to my dad...he just bought a new Harley a couple months ago.

 

oh **** dads about to come in here and do some e-asswhoopin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gant &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh **** dads about to come in here and do some e-asswhoopin </TD></TR></TABLE>

Haha, nah, just email'd him the link in the OP.

 

The overall economic forecast must have a lot to do with this. People are panicking due to a variety of factors and since Harleys are just big toys...this does not surprise me.

H-D is a classic example of American industry's unwillingness to change with the times. They've been polishing the same turd for too long. Buell is a step in the right direction but come on, USA...give us something better.

Harleys have limited appeal...their customers are either that old guy who won't ride anything else, or the wanna-be forty-something dentist/lawyer/doctor/other professional who always wanted one or just wants to feel like a bad-***. These are the guys that are probably getting scared out of the motorcycle market as their homes decline in value.

Other manufacturers won't be in as bad shape, since their bikes are actual transportation, not luxury items for old men. If H-D made a bike for six grand they'd be in much better shape.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">H-D is a classic example of American industry's unwillingness to change with the times. </TD></TR></TABLE>

They're not making the same bike they were making 10 or 20 years ago. Its the same look, feel and the are building what the customer wants and making a good profit on it - so why change?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Other manufacturers won't be in as bad shape, since their bikes are actual transportation, not luxury items for old men</TD></TR></TABLE>

How many people buy sportbikes from the big 4 and use them for daily transportation? I'd venture that its a very small percentage of buyers, even during good weather. A new 600RR is just as much of a 'luxury' purchase as a new HD for most riders. The only exception I can think of are most BMW riders.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They're not making the same bike they were making 10 or 20 years ago. Its the same look, feel and the are building what the customer wants and making a good profit on it - so why change?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because as their core customers die off (I don't know too many twentysomething riders who want Harleys) and the poseurs find something new to pose with, H-D run the risk of marginalizing themselves.

This is why American car makers are in dire straits...they milked their old/underpowered/overweight/unreliable cars for so long because they had a reliable customer base. Now, as the old blue-haired ladies go into nursing homes and stop buying Mercury Grand Marquis, the companies are working overtime to make up the ground they have lost over the past 20 years to imports.

If H-D had started making sportier, lighter models ten years ago, they'd be decent bikes right now. But instead, they kept on making bikes that weigh 700lbs, have 75hp, and cost $20K and up. If there was a real American alternative to bikes like the Monster and the SV (let alone to the F4i, R6, etc), I'd think about buying one. But if my only choice is a Buell, I'm gonna pass. And I'm just the kind of customer they need to cultivate for the future.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How many people buy sportbikes from the big 4 and use them for daily transportation? I'd venture that its a very small percentage of buyers, even during good weather. A new 600RR is just as much of a 'luxury' purchase as a new HD for most riders. The only exception I can think of are most BMW riders.</TD></TR></TABLE>

All true, but when a 600RR costs $9K and a decently-equipped Harley costs $17K, what are ya gonna do? Especially since the RR looks better, and performs ten times as well. Anyone on a budget can forget about a Harley, but a new Gixxer can be had for half the price of a new Honda Fit. Hell, with a $3.4K down payment, my payments on the R6 were $39.99/month.

Harley needs to make some technological leaps, and explore the lower reaches of the motorcycle market, if it wants to survive. They could make a competitor to the Honda Rebel without much trouble.

 

Harley could IMMEDIATELY cut there cost by half or perhaps more by moving manufacturing to China or Korea if price was the only issue... then again they would cut there own throats to. To me it's simply a different market, and i think the japanese are doing a MUCH better job of it, again, if you take a good look at the japanese cruisers. HD's gone baby, slowly rusting away. Tell your pops, rust never sleeps!

 

People keep mentioning sportbikes, when there are many other different kinds of bikes HD could branch out into. Hell, they could even branch out into watercraft and the like. My point was they they probably should have diversified more as a company.