I was at Lime Rock recently (spectating) and I became very curious after watching some expensive, brand new cars on the track. Namely a Porsche GT3 RS, MB CLK 63 Black Series, and, an M6.

Obviously if you crash at the track most insurance carriers will deny the claim due to motorsports use exclusions.

But what happens lets say if, the owner of a GT3 RS tracks his car all weekend, and, later that week (back on street tires) on the way to work the GT3 RS blows it's motor. Will Porsche have grounds for denial, since it is documented that the vehicle has been used at a motorsports park?

I know that most people that are serious about road racing use proven, well worn vehicles that are cheaper to replace, and, are usually out of warranty. But what about the wealthy weekend warrior? Is tracking or even autocrossing an M6 or GT3 going to cost him his warranty?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Will Porsche have grounds for denial, since it is documented that the vehicle has been used at a motorsports park?

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Sure. I would assume that the person that blew up the car probably wouldn't say they had been on the race track the weekend before and the dealer isn't going to know any better!

 

In some cases it is possible to tell if the vehicle has been tracked. Im a tech for a bmw dealer near willow springs and we've seen quite a few cars come through which have obviously been on a track recently. Besides looking at the tires (assuming the wheels/tires were not switched out) The brakes are usually hotspotted and very blue if the person was actually "driving" the car. Not to mention it is possible to see previous times the engine has hit the rev limiter. We've refused quite a few clutches on new M5 and M6's due to the fact that they were clearly at the track recently.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LIMITLESS22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In some cases it is possible to tell if the vehicle has been tracked. Im a tech for a bmw dealer near willow springs and we've seen quite a few cars come through which have obviously been on a track recently. Besides looking at the tires (assuming the wheels/tires were not switched out) The brakes are usually hotspotted and very blue if the person was actually "driving" the car. Not to mention it is possible to see previous times the engine has hit the rev limiter. We've refused quite a few clutches on new M5 and M6's due to the fact that they were clearly at the track recently. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Interesting, so it's a win/lose situation if your have a new high end performance car and you track it with any kind of frequency.

But what about whistle-blowing corporate and/or dealer employees and the like? Do manufacturers look to write down plate numbers/vins at tracks the way they do at major drag strips?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H-PIMP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Do manufacturers look to write down plate numbers/vins at tracks the way they do at major drag strips?</TD></TR></TABLE>

?Manufacturers at the track? I've seen the Mazdaspeed guy at a Cal Speedway Scca event once.....He was there trying to sell everyone that the 1.8 and the 1.6 Miatas were the "same car"......

 

A lot of dealers will probably look the other way because it helps them make quota's in part's sales goals and the like. At the same time it will really depend on the dealer. I'm a tech at Nissan dealer here in VA, and we think it's funny when guys bring in there Z's with blown motors, wheel bearings, blown brembo calipers, etc. asking for warranty claims. We're one of the few dealers in the area that seem honor the warranty on these cases, why? Most of us in the service dept. are motorsports enthusiasts as it is so it doesn't bother us to do it, we're getting paid to do it, customer is happy in the end.

Ex. About a month ago a 350 came in with a couple of giant holes in the block...there was barely a stock part left on this car, performance wise. The guy didn't even bother to take his r-comps off before he brought it in. 4 days later...he pulled out with a brand new motor.

You think people aren't going to be blowing GTR motors in a year or two? haha

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A lot of dealers will probably look the other way because it helps them make quota's in part's sales goals and the like. At the same time it will really depend on the dealer. I'm a tech at Nissan dealer here in VA, and we think it's funny when guys bring in there Z's with blown motors, wheel bearings, blown brembo calipers, etc. asking for warranty claims. We're one of the few dealers in the area that seem honor the warranty on these cases, why? Most of us in the service dept. are motorsports enthusiasts as it is so it doesn't bother us to do it, we're getting paid to do it, customer is happy in the end.

Ex. About a month ago a 350 came in with a couple of giant holes in the block...there was barely a stock part left on this car, performance wise. The guy didn't even bother to take his r-comps off before he brought it in. 4 days later...he pulled out with a brand new motor.

You think people aren't going to be blowing GTR motors in a year or two? haha </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure whether to commend you or smack you accross the back of the head.. . But if I was your customer, I know I'd be happy. Goes to show that if you have a certain car in mind, try and find a "Friendly Dealer" to do business with. Sounds like even paying a few more bucks will probably pay off in the long run.

I'm not sure if you are doing the whole public anygood or just few customers. I'm sure that the amount of warranty claims has something to do with car prices in the end.. .

Personally... . I love seeing the new cars out at the track. I hope that people can feel confident in doing so and continue. Some of them really need to let loose out there so they don't do stupid things on the street "as much".. .

I've heard of a bunch of Subaru and Mitsu dealers turning down warranties though on slightly modded vehicles. Sometimes just b/c they have a cat back and a aftermarket intake system.. . When a customer shows up with aftermarket turbo, big front mount, bunch of gauges.. . I wouldn't accept a warranty claim on any of his driveline parts.. . Maybe his brakes so he can stay on the road though.. .

 

I tracked my S2k with only 700 miles on it.

It's not a high end car or anything, but I wasn't concerned about breaking anything or fighting with Honda about a warranty.

It's what cars were made for.

 

Being on the track really *shouldn't* impact warranty work at all as long as you are driving the car under the manufacturers operating parameters. If running a stock ecu, stock internals, etc, and you blow it, then the motor failed and should be covered. Now, wear items like brake pads, rotors, clutches, etc. should *not* be covered.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kommon_sense &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Being on the track really *shouldn't* impact warranty work at all as long as you are driving the car under the manufacturers operating parameters. If running a stock ecu, stock internals, etc, and you blow it, then the motor failed and should be covered. Now, wear items like brake pads, rotors, clutches, etc. should *not* be covered.
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I agree. And the thing is the actual manufacturer never sees the car and has no idea its been on a track. Usually its up to our disgression. Like you said wear items we usually dont honor. But we also will deny a customer if he's running aftermarket blow off valves(i.e. on the new 3.0biturbo engine) because it leans out the mixture way too much. Engine failure with stock components will most likely always be honored.

 

I wonder how dealerships in Japan deal with warranties. It would seem like a high percentage of these turbo cars get modded over there.


A bunch of Mitsu Dealers were replacing prematurely worn clutches on EVOS under warranty back in the day. Basically you could throw a reflash and cat back exhaust on those cars and overpower the stock unit or at least be able to abuse bad enough to wear out ver frequently. but I agree, clutch is a wear item and is the customer's responsibility.

 

From what I was told on the EVOs the shock of the drivetrain was made to wear out the clutches. I was sad that they got rid of the 4G63...strong block could handle 350whp pretty well.

Mitsu and Subaru dealer known for being a paing @ss about warranty. Customer service wasn't a plus...For Mitsu I can understand, they are not doing too well beside the EVO but still you should try to salvage your name somehow.

 

the local subaru dealership sells and installs cobb reflash stuff, and then honors warranty on stuff when it breaks. at the honda dealership im at apparently we did a jackson supercharger kid on a new prelude and gave the guy full warranty. (this was before i started for i cant say 100% on that)
all comes down to the dealership and the service manager i guess.

 

Mitsubishi for some time now looks up vehicle registration for timed events and will void your drivetrain warrenty because of participation in a timed event. A few years back there was an article about it in SCC. I believe Subaru was doing the same thing with the STI's.

Take a look at the 1st post on this forum, a guy gets his warranty voided for competing in scca


http://newboards.tusclan.com/s...15097

"It seems that Mitsubishi has set up an automatic web search that looks for registration and results information for any Mitsubishi. They then capture the race results information, match it to vehicle purchase and service records and proactively put the car on "warranty restriction". Those of you with new cars, may want to not list the actual car make or use a screen name."

 

Warranty claims really don't impact a cars price to drastically bad. I'll speak just of Nissan's because it's what I work on, but Altima's "america's favorite sedan" right? The things have more warranty and recall claims than one could even imagine, and they are still finding stuff wrong with them. Yet they're prices have not changed really drastically compared to rate of inflation of new cars as a whole.

Just as a clarification...that engine in the example above that I spoke of I had no problem with them making a warranty claim for that. Now another guy that came in with obviously overheated (seals were burned out of the pistons) 350z brembo calipers...I thought that was BS, but it's not usually up to the tech's in those cases it's more the management and service writer's that make the official call on it.

And as far as that Mitsu guy that lost his warranty...a company has to make a statement that they will not put up with "timed events". Your insurance company won't cover you in a "timed event", so why should your warranty officially cover you.
If you find a friendly dealer that will help you out more power to you, look around at dealers in your area, ask questions. Do not ask questions while your car is there for anything because you might not like their answers and they might not like your questions and red flag your vin number. Just call up and ask for stop by, be nice make friends with some service writers.

 

You gotta pay to play.

If you can't afford to walk away from it, or put a new motor or two in it, you should not be taking it out on track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MightyMouseTech &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You gotta pay to play.

If you can't afford to walk away from it, or put a new motor or two in it, you should not be taking it out on track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Xeleventy

I wouldn't count on a warranty OR insurance for a track car. Most of the guys I've met that track high dollar cars just make enough money to write them off in that event. I don't know how many Porsche guys I've seen blow motors, followed by, "well, that's another $10-20K out of my account..."

 

??? Question here:

the guys writing their "hobby" off for business expenses are cheapening the sport for them only by what tax braket they are in though right?

If you were single for instance, if you have to claim you make more than 160Gs a year then you are in the 33% tax braket or if you make over $350,000 you are in the 35%.. . http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/a....html

So that $10,000 engine only realy cost around $6,700 at the end of the year???

 

Back when the s2000 1st came out a local Honda Dealership here tried to not warranty my friends s2k here (it was burning oil) because his license plate said autoxr, the tech told him the car wasn't designed for racing and that Honda made it rev to high to begin with...my friend showed him the scca papers in the glove box of the one sitting in their lobby...they warrantied his car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Conechaser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Back when the s2000 1st came out a local Honda Dealership here tried to not warranty my friends s2k here (it was burning oil) because his license plate said autoxr, the tech told him the car wasn't designed for racing and that Honda made it rev to high to begin with...my friend showed him the scca papers in the glove box of the one sitting in their lobby...they warrantied his car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

HA! now that's funny. I as well had a friend with a s2000 and he got a rear LSD and a rear axle replaced under warranty. He took it to the drag strip but you couldn't tell. He of course fibbed to get it repalced. In 2008 Honda has a track pack s2000 soo0 yeah, Honda likes to promote that their cars are meant to be driven. Even Ford has Rousch Trak Pack editions and of course they have warranties as well.