I know the B18C has a higher general hp. output but which is better for boosting? The B18B1 has a lower compression so can it make more power than a boosted B18C?

please help me.

 

The thread has been reset. Let's keep it civil this time. Back your claims with dyno plots. Let's keep the discussion on internally stock engines.

 

Wow, the thread disappeared. Lol. But yeah, as far as HP output, the GSR > the LS, pound for pound(no pun intended) The higher compression means more torque and HP, whether it's NA or boosted. The reason people lower compression is for releiability/durability, but a stock or higher compression GSR can be reliable with great tuning.

I've seen plenty of 4g63 builds with higher compression pistons, because the first gens had 7.8:1 compression.

My friends b16 hatch made 300 whp at 11 lbs on a normal full race t3/t4 setup. Completely stock engine from valve cover to oilpan. A stock LS will not touch this on the same setup/boost level. A GSR will be even better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dogginator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The thread has been reset. Let's keep it civil this time. Back your claims with dyno plots. Let's keep the discussion on internally stock engines.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Use search, this has been beaten to death.

but Cliffs

GSR motor is better
Has OEM block Girdle, Larger headstuds, better flowing head, VTEC, higher redline, and better pistons.
LS is cheap and has a longer stroke, but has no block girdle, small headstuds and low redline.

BTW boosted stock motor FTL

Make your own decision but do us all a favor and use search. K
Thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow, the thread disappeared. Lol. But yeah, as far as HP output, the GSR &gt; the LS, pound for pound(no pun intended) The higher compression means more torque and HP, whether it's NA or boosted. The reason people lower compression is for releiability/durability, but a stock or higher compression GSR can be reliable with great tuning.

I've seen plenty of 4g63 builds with higher compression pistons, because the first gens had 7.8:1 compression.

My friends b16 hatch made 300 whp at 11 lbs on a normal full race t3/t4 setup. Completely stock engine from valve cover to oilpan. A stock LS will not touch this on the same setup/boost level. A GSR will be even better. </TD></TR></TABLE>

actaully plenty of stock LS motors have hit 300 WHP, sorry to burst your bubble
here is 500 pages of boosted LS setups

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1323059

here are some dyno sheets with stock motors

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2109192

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc4g &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actaully plenty of stock LS motors have hit 300 WHP, sorry to burst your bubble
here is 500 pages of boosted LS setups

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1323059

here are some dyno sheets with stock motors

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2109192</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, and the first LS engine I saw was a b18a at 11 pounds tuned on crome, making 230 hp. Is there a 300 whp LS on 10-12 lbs with a stock engine? Please tell me before I waste my time. You might have misunderstood me; I'm sorry but all things being equal a stock GSR will put out more HP than a stock LS with the same turbo setup and boost level.

Ok I read through the whole thread, I assumed it was many, many pages. There are two LS turbo setups in there, one making 239 @ 11 lbs, and the other making 200whp @ 11 psi. The stock GSRs are making about 280-320 at the same boost levels. Thanks for proving my point

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ok, and the first LS engine I saw was a b18a at 11 pounds tuned on crome, making 230 hp. Is there a 300 whp LS on 10-12 lbs with a stock engine? Please tell me before I waste my time. You might have misunderstood me; I'm sorry but all things being equal a stock GSR will put out more HP than a stock LS with the same turbo setup and boost level.

Ok I read through the whole thread, I assumed it was many, many pages. There are two LS turbo setups in there, one making 239 @ 11 lbs, and the other making 200whp @ 11 psi. The stock GSRs are making about 280-320 at the same boost levels. Thanks for proving my point </TD></TR></TABLE>

GSR will make more power its Higher CR and better flowing head, but LS motors will make 300 WHP on stock internals.
You cant just say that ALL xxx motors will only make xxx
Buy a good ramhorn manifold a gt30r turbo and have it tuned on 92 octane with a large FMIC and 3" ex and you can make 300.
just dont plan on any stock honda motor lasting @ 300 whp for long.
Stock pistons and rods wont last long.
then again a good tune goes a long way.

 

check user

AMLS4dr200whp

supposed 325 on a stock bottom LS.
dont think you cant do it all stock.
it just might not last ....

EDIT here is a copy of a user on the LS-T page


USER=
redlsvtec4door

Dynoed my 00 integra today.
here are the spec's
completely stock ls 132k miles very healthy motor

blox exh manifold
tial wastegate 35mm
turbonetics t3/t4 57trim
an oil lines with adjustable oil restictor
3 in downpipe
3in catco cat
2.5 in apex'i dunk exhaust
drag intercooler with drag piping
hks ssqv bov
bdl 70mm throttle body
blox intake manifold
hondata s200b
walbro 255 hp
aem fuel rail
rc 550cc injectors
3 bar map
dual slim fans
FULL AC/ PS/ABS/CRUISE
act clutch xtreme pressure plate with full organic disc
clutchmasters flywheel
turbo smart manual boost controller on a hi lo switch

plx wideband m300
auotmeter oil psi/ watertemp
apexi turbo timer with built in boost gauge


LOW BOOST 7PSI 214HP 183 TQ

HIGH BOOST 14 PSI 286HP 240 TQ

i did all of this for under 2200 dollar plus 500 for tuning (had to go 2 times)

ID LIKE TO SAY THANKS TO JOE AT TEMPEST FOR WAKING UP EARLY ON A ALREADY BUSY DAY TO SQUEEZE ME IN. YOUR AWESOME

END COPY

Now compare the blox to a fullrace.
BLOX =

Fullrace =

And a 3" exhaust
and there you have your extra HP on a stock LS

 

Okay now I think you misunderstood me. I was comparing the engines with similar turbo setups. Never did I say that an LS can't make 300whp on stock internals. It will take more boost than a GSR engine will to produce that number. I'm not doubting the LS's ability to make nice power, just saying that psi for psi the b18c1 and even b16a will make more power than a b18a/b.

 

well for me..i like Both motor....but i dont know about you....i perfer Ls V... all motor Turbo....will do u Good...newayz guys Sorry to be Off topic...but if i have an Ls V built..what is the best Ecu to use....Would and Ecu from an Type R integra Good ?..

 

im using a jdm type r ecu in my gsr with blox manifold its better than any chipped ecu out there cuz it has less sensors and no 02 sensors,jdm type r ecu ftw

 

ls-tec boosted ftw .. i have a ls turbo but im going to be slapping on a built b16 head soon. personally i would go with a ls-tec anyday before a gsr just because ls blocks are dirt cheap compared to gsr blocks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCgarage919 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cuz it has less sensors and no 02 sensors,jdm type r ecu ftw </TD></TR></TABLE>

What are you talking about?

OP, stock for stock, the GSR is a far better engine. The LS may be able to handle more boost because of the lower compression ratio, which potentially equates to more torque. The GSR can still spin faster and breath better, which equates to more HP.

 

exactly thats why GS-R's are better : )

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DOHCgarage919 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im using a jdm type r ecu in my gsr with blox manifold its better than any chipped ecu out there cuz it has less sensors and no 02 sensors,jdm type r ecu ftw </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dogginator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What are you talking about?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

being that all this thread was cleaned p and i can't reference my previous posts, all i will say is that there in enough discussion in this thread to support my prior argument that b18c1 &gt; b18b1

 

to the op the power is in the head the gsr is a better motor becauseof the head and how it flows ls with headwork can not even keep up with most stock gsr or b16 heads and ive seen flow bench charts go for the gsr

 

ur wrong a fully build ls head can breath just as good as a gsr

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integraRS-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ur wrong a fully build ls head can breath just as good as a gsr </TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, let's get a fully built GSR head in this mix. Yeah, the GSR will flow better and still be able to produce low RPM power so that it is easily driven on the street. Go VTEC!

To stick with the Op's question: stock to stock the B18C1 trumps the B18B. Any questions?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay now I think you misunderstood me. I was comparing the engines with similar turbo setups. Never did I say that an LS can't make 300whp on stock internals. It will take more boost than a GSR engine will to produce that number. I'm not doubting the LS's ability to make nice power, just saying that psi for psi the b18c1 and even b16a will make more power than a b18a/b. </TD></TR></TABLE>

psi means nothing, you can't compare a LS build to a GSR build purely on PSI. they can be totally different, one can be running a T25 and the other a GT30, one could have stock exhaust, the other a 3" Thermal. see what i'm getting at, search a little more about turbo theory before you or anyone posts BS like that

 

The B18A/B is an excellent engine to turbocharge especially since it is the engine most 90-93 Integras come with. The long stroke enables the B18A/B, AKA LS motor (although they were available in the RS, LS, and GS trim models), to put down impressive torque numbers, specifically top end torque. The stock compression ratio, at 9.2:1, is also ideal for boost. All things being equal, at a given horsepower, the LS motor will put down more torque than a VTEC counterpart, however the LS motor will require more boost to get to that given horsepower. The horsepower to torque differential, on average, is 10% in the LS motor (stock stroke and displacement) and 20% in the VTEC equipped counterpart. This motor is particularly reliable as well. Stock LS motors have been boosted to 300hp with proper fuel / engine management. Boosting at these levels requires precise tuning as the slightest bit of detonation can lead to terminal engine failure. Built LS motors have seen 500+ horsepower

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onebadd4dr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...to put down impressive torque numbers, specifically top end torque.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

wrong, more stroke puts down more midrange torque, as is evident in both stock engines, the GSR ends up making more peak tq but its all high while the LS makes peak tq lower

 

There shouldn't even be discussion about this. The GSR has a higher static compression, better bottom end and a better head. The engine can more efficiently make power from a given amount of air (boost if you like).

The LS, with its lower static compression, can "handle more boost." That statement only applies to the amount of boost it can handle on a certain grade fuel. The stock LS head does not flow very well and will therefore restrict power output. The two things the LS has in its favor are: it is cheap, and it has a longer stroke=more torque (generally)

All in all, money aside, the GSR is a better engine. I have a boosted stock GSR and if you'd like me to post the power graph i will. It is an awesome street car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nate_2k5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">psi means nothing, you can't compare a LS build to a GSR build purely on PSI. they can be totally different, one can be running a T25 and the other a GT30, one could have stock exhaust, the other a 3" Thermal. see what i'm getting at, search a little more about turbo theory before you or anyone posts BS like that</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that is why I mentioned something that you didn't comprehend, which is similar turbo setups. I don't need you preaching to me why a 14b at 10 pounds will produce less torque than a .60/.63 T4 will at 10 lbs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Uncle Ben’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think that is why I mentioned something that you didn't comprehend, which is similar turbo setups. I don't need you preaching to me why a 14b at 10 pounds will produce less torque than a .60/.63 T4 will at 10 lbs. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yah well in your first post you went thru and exclusively looked for LS builds that were pushing 11psi...and psi is irrelevant unless you can find setups that are piece for piece the same thing and the same tuner

 

*shakes head*

This is going to be locked. I really wonder how many people posting on this board truly comprehend the relationship between torque and HP, let alone compression ratio and stroke as related to torque.