I havent really posted around here the last couple of years, I have been driving an '03 TL-S, great car, but boring as hell.

So now I am thinking about buying an FA5, I like the sedan look and it works for the kids. So I have been doing lots of reading and had a couple of questions about the car and engine.

I have owned both an EP3 w/ the stock k20a3 and a DA9 w/ a swapped b16a2, so I have had both "kinds" of VTEC, real and not so much. I have been hard pressed to find a clear explanation of which kind of system the k20z3 contains. I know the K series all have VTC, but I want to know is there true VTEC on both the intake and exhaust side like a k20a2? If this is a true VTEC, like the k20a2, are we just missing the hotter sticks to get to k20a power or is the compression different also?

If I get this car, I am sure it wont stay stock for long. I havent seen a huge aftermarket selection yet. Does anyone know what options there are for bolt on suspension? I am sure there is an HFP (correct?), is Mugen offering their setup like on the Mugen car for sale by itself, anyone else making a good system? Headers and cat-back same question, nothing too loud as this is a DD.

Thanks for any help!

Please only offer engine explanations if you know for sure.

Giff

 

http://www.corsportusa.com has a lot of options for the new Si, and Comptech had some good suspension bits, but I don't know where to find them anymore now that they're remanufacturing.

I'm pretty sure only the EP Si's had the pissy one cam VTEC, but an Si owner would probably better explain your options with cams and compression. The problem right now is that there is no KPRO, only reflashes until things like the DBW can be integrated.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.corsportusa.com has a lot of options for the new Si, and Comptech had some good suspension bits, but I don't know where to find them anymore now that they're remanufacturing.

I'm pretty sure only the EP Si's had the pissy one cam VTEC, but an Si owner would probably better explain your options with cams and compression. The problem right now is that there is no KPRO, only reflashes until things like the DBW can be integrated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the heads up about Kpro, that is good to know. The EP3 only had the one real VTEC cam, that is what I want to make sure I dont get again. I knew what I was getting with the EP, but wanted a hatch so bad I didnt care.

I had thought the k20z3 was true VTEC, but some things I read and the fact that the engine code has "3" in it again as in k20a3 makes me wonder. I dont want to swap engine, but I would like to be able to put in hotter sticks and get Kpro when its ready with a few bolt ons and put down some good power with minimal worries.

Giff

 

No problem with that warning, here's more info about the reflash for the time being:

http://www.hondata.com/reflash_06_civicsi.html

 

No one knows about the VTEC in the new Si cars? I am hard pressed to believe that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by giff74 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No one knows about the VTEC in the new Si cars? I am hard pressed to believe that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

[For the K-Series motors there are two different types of i-VTEC systems implemented. The first is for the performance motors like in the RSX Type S or the TSX and the other is for economy motors found in the CR-V or Accord. The performance i-VTEC system is basically the same as the DOHC VTEC system of the B16A's, both intake and exhaust have 3 cam lobes per cylinder. However the valvetrain has the added benefit of roller rockers and continuously variable intake cam timing. The economy i-VTEC is more like the SOHC VTEC-E in that the intake cam has only two lobes, one very small and one larger, as well as no VTEC on the exhaust cam. The two types of motor are easily distinguishable by the factory rated power output: the performance motors make around 200 hp or more in stock form and the economy motors do not make much more than 160 hp from the factory.]

found this on wikipedia.com now i know it doesnt come out and say it but im about 90% positive that the 06 + si has vtec on both cams.

 

100% sure that K20Z3 has dual cam VTEC

 

This is certainly not "economy" VTEC like in the EP-3. I drove one and was completely unsatisfied w/ the sound, feel, and power in the EP-3. The 2006-up Si has true DOHC VTEC w/ intelligence (VTC). This engine has the third lobe on both bumpsticks, not just on the intake like on the EP-3 and base RSX motors(160 hp). The reason for the small bump int the HP is that the SAE standards changed just a little and lowered some manufacturers HP figures. I had and 05 RSX-S and the Si feels a smidge quicker to me. The LSD makes the biggest difference though, I could easily walk away, on a windy road, from my RSX-S which had 1 wheel spinnin' fury.

We actually have the most sought after intake manifold, from what I have read, it has the best flow characteristics of all Honda K-series manifolds.

 

OUR SI'S HAVE TRUE VTACK YO!

 

There is no kpro because it cant read the Mass air sensor and MAP sensor at the same time. The K20A2 has only a MAP sensor. The ECU for our cars also runs the dash display and the traction control which the RSX and EP3 SI,s dont have. The compression on the type R K20A is .5 higher than the K20Z3 and it doesnt use Mass air. Tha mass air is a pain in the ***. Its the reason why most bolt on intakes have poor throttle response and no low end power. none of the companies thought it would be wise to put the air vanes before the sensor and its causing lean rich problems at low RPM's. And The fact that it uses both MAP and MAF is the reason we have to use piggyback AFC's. I hope this info helps you out.

 

k20a2 & k20z3 has teh re@l vt@k we all know of.

The other k20's are for fuel efficiency.


One more note, the new si's takes premium so be prepared to cough up the extra cash and not come on here pissy about it. I love my fa5 and I would recommend it to anyone who wants a semi decent fast car with 4 doors and can afford it. BTW Taffy white is the best color!

Taffy white and rally red are the rare colors. I see lots of black and blue si's. Only a taffy and rr once in a blue moon.

 

does that mean it is impossible for hondata to come out with a k pro.. is their ne way to work around the MAS

 

?

 

its MAF (mass air flow ) not mas and if there is a will then there is a way iam sure they just gotta get all the R&D done because of all the new things that we have like the TBW or DBW

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">100% sure that K20Z3 has dual cam VTEC</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2.... the vtec stickers on the side even say "DOHC".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chiggin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

x2.... the vtec stickers on the side even say "DOHC". </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, you're not getting it. the EP3 said the same thing on the side. The k20a3 that came in the EP3 and basemodel RSX had the economy version of vtec. They changed from a 3 valve motor at low RPMs to a 4 valve motor at high RPMs.

DOHC on the sticker refers to engine configuration, having 2 cams total.

"The K20A3 used on this Civic's uses an intake-only VTEC implementation. K20As with intake-only VTEC are used by Honda on a variety of their models, CR-V, Stream and models like the JDM DC5 Integra iS and some Accords as well. These models are more rounded than the all-out hardcore performance models like the Type-Rs. For them outright performance will not be as important as a good power with good fuel economy or a strong mid-range power for e.g. At the moment, Honda has two versions of this intake-only VTEC implementation. One uses 3 rocker-camlobe pairs and the other 2 rocker-camlobe pairs, both on the intake side of course. In both versions, VTEC changes the engine between a 12V to a 16V configuration, i.e. between either 1 intake or 2 intake valves per cylinder by de-activating or activating one of the valves."

from: http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/20CivicRev/index.html

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FlatlineSI28 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does that mean it is impossible for hondata to come out with a k pro.. is their ne way to work around the MAS</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its only a matter of time. Every honda from here on out is going to have the same setup. The market is huge and there's plenty of money to be made.

 

Most people say that a Type-S(K20A2) VTEC feel is way different than a Si(K20Z3), even though they are both on the same DOHC setup. I'd be willing to tell you first hand, but... my DC5s clutch is near gone, it couldnt hold vtec right now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Most people say that a Type-S(K20A2) VTEC feel is way different than a Si(K20Z3), even though they are both on the same DOHC setup. I'd be willing to tell you first hand, but... my DC5s clutch is near gone, it couldnt hold vtec right now. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Didn't you just buy that car?