So, I picked up this video...

man do they love the new CTR...


So, How different is this car compared to our Civic SI?

anyone compared the specs side by side.....

aside from the obvious... SI 197 hp and the CTR 225 hp....

both have....

lsd
dbw
strut front susp
multilink rear

18's on ctr 17's on si

any thoughts?

anyone know if the ctr ecu is plug n play in our SI

 

Its not plug and play. The motors are the same but they are'nt. The cams are different and the compression is different, Which means the cam timing will be different. And our ecu's run with a map sensor and a mass air sensor. The type R motor is like the RSX. It only has a MAP sensor. This is the reason why we cant use any of the stand alone engine management systems. Like Hondata. So to answer your question No it is not plug and play. It wont work at all.

 

Even if that car somehow made it to the United States, it would probably have to be de-tuned to meet US emmissions standards. So we would probably see a slightly better version of the Mugen Si.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by soxfan143 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The type R motor is like the RSX. It only has a MAP sensor. This is the reason why we cant use any of the stand alone engine management systems. Like Hondata. So to answer your question No it is not plug and play. It wont work at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hondata is available for our cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Z4xLSVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Hondata is available for our cars.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
the hondata reflash is but you cant tune with it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Even if that car somehow made it to the United States, it would probably have to be de-tuned to meet US emmissions standards. So we would probably see a slightly better version of the Mugen Si.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But a Mugen Si and improve it slightly. The JDM four door CTR is only 25 HP more than the USDM Si motor...shouldn't be that hard to fix.

And by the time you put all the other parts on it, you will have probably exceeded the purchase price of $29,500 for a Mugen Si.

I think that it's possible the Mugen Si came to the USDM as a test for whether or not there is a market for the Type R.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I think that it's possible the Mugen Si came to the USDM as a test for whether or not there is a market for the Type R.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hate it when you post comments like this.....


It gets my hopes up.....you always seem to be on the forefront of what Honda is doing...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think that it's possible the Mugen Si came to the USDM as a test for whether or not there is a market for the Type R.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2

Lets hope the Mugen succeeds then.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Lets hope the Mugen succeeds then. </TD></TR></TABLE>
There's only 1,000 of them to sell. Now it depends on what the enthusiasts are saying about them.

I got a rather...well, let's call it "pointed" phone call the other day because I unwisely compared the Mugen Si's suspension to my own DC2 ITR track car's N1 Showa suspension.

Apparently I was not supposed to do that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's only 1,000 of them to sell. Now it depends on what the enthusiasts are saying about them.

I got a rather...well, let's call it "pointed" phone call the other day because I unwisely compared the Mugen Si's suspension to my own DC2 ITR track car's N1 Showa suspension.

Apparently I was not supposed to do that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you've driven the Mugen Si??

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you've driven the Mugen Si??</TD></TR></TABLE>
No. I think that's why he went off on me. I was comparing a picture of a Mugen Si in a close-haul heel to one of my DC2 ITR entering Turn One at Summit Point.

It's in the Mugen Si thread in this forum.

It was a mistake on my part. I shouldn't have compared the suspension of a roadgoing Mugen Si with my basically track-only DC2 ITR hybrid.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No. I think that's why he went off on me. I was comparing a picture of a Mugen Si in a close-haul heel to one of my DC2 ITR entering Turn One at Summit Point.

It's in the Mugen Si thread in this forum.

It was a mistake on my part. I shouldn't have compared the suspension of a roadgoing Mugen Si with my basically track-only DC2 ITR hybrid.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True. ITR wasn't exactly the best daily driver. Which makes me skeptical as to whether Honda will bring the JDM Type R to the states. These days people are looking for the perfect mix between track-bred performance and driving comfort.

 

I hope they do bring the CTR here, I could care less about the actual power rating. I just want the look of it without spending $3000+ in mods converting it that I won't get back if i had a wreck. (even though it would probably be a weekend driver)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hope they do bring the CTR here, I could care less about the actual power rating. I just want the look of it without spending $3000+ in mods converting it that I won't get back if i had a wreck. (even though it would probably be a weekend driver)</TD></TR></TABLE>
If the HP doesn't matter to you, then maybe you want one of these Mugen Civic Si's that they can't seem to get rid of around here at $29.5K.

If you stop to think about it, adding all the Mugen parts to the car would force you to spend more than what they're selling the car for.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> maybe you want one of these Mugen Civic Si's that they can't seem to get rid of around here at $29.5K. </TD></TR></TABLE>

They can't shift them? Wow, if that car were offered in our market at that price, they'd all have been snapped up within days. It's sad that the supposed "Type R" hatch that we get is almost $40k yet you get the Mugen sedan for less than $30k.

I saw a JDM FD2 sedan Civic R here last week, (obviously imported) and i have to say it looked amazing in the metal. Hopefully in 3 or 4 years when the price has come down, i'll be looking at importing one for myself.

 

It's <u>so</u> hard to get rid of the Mugen Si's that it's affecting Honda's opinion of whether or not the JDM CTR would make it here.

 

It's amazing the number of times i've read on various US forums that people there feel they always get the bum deal and they hate the fact that Honda didn't bother with Civic Type R's for your market. Yet people don't seem to want what, in esscence, isn't that far removed from a Type R anyway.

So is it the price that's putting potential buyers off?

 

I was at a Honda dealer here in AZ looking at their Mugen Civic in the showroom while my Si was being worked on. It was stickered at $34k. As sexy as I thought it looked, I just couldn't bring myself to pay that much for a Civic.

 

Honda set itself up for this... any limited production CIVIC is going to get thief raped and pilliaged... no one wants it because there isnt any big bonus about it at all. Type-R has WAY more bang for the buck (interior, suspension, brakes, and style) than the cheaply modded Si...

I like the way the Type-R looks (aka the CSX style).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda set itself up for this... any limited production CIVIC is going to get thief raped and pilliaged... no one wants it because there isnt any big bonus about it at all. Type-R has WAY more bang for the buck (interior, suspension, brakes, and style) than the cheaply modded Si...

I like the way the Type-R looks (aka the CSX style). </TD></TR></TABLE>

cheaply modded?!? price mugen parts lately? cheap is not a word I'd use to describe them.

btw. The Type-R if it makes it to the US will not look like the JDM/CSX. It'll look like the Si with a lip kit and wheels. Think of the ITR. Did the USDM model have the JDM headlights? nope.

I also think that if we had the CTR in the US but not the Mugen Si, everyone would be all over the Mugen Si. Bitching about like "why can't we get the good cars in the US" It's a "want what you can't have deal"

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's <u>so</u> hard to get rid of the Mugen Si's that it's affecting Honda's opinion of whether or not the JDM CTR would make it here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe you on this. I know you have more of an inside line on what's going on with Honda than I do. I do know that in my part of the world that I can't find a mugen si at a dealership. The only one I've seen was at a McDonalds down the street from the house. This kind of gave me the impression that they were selling well, but you know otherwise. I'd be interested to see the actual sales figures vs. regular si sales.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Demonis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda set itself up for this... any limited production CIVIC is going to get thief raped and pilliaged... no one wants it because there isnt any big bonus about it at all. Type-R has WAY more bang for the buck (interior, suspension, brakes, and style) than the cheaply modded Si...

I like the way the Type-R looks (aka the CSX style). </TD></TR></TABLE>

Mugen isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination my friend.

The car itself is not bad, its just the pricing, all in all 30k+ for ultimately a civic just isnt worth it like you said. but if the car was mid 20k, no one would be hating.

 

Back to the car in question, I'm sure the new CTR is substantially better than our Si. Improved brakes (brembo), more hp/tq, hydraulic steering, Recaros, stiffer chasis, less sound deadening, improved exhaust, etc. Though I'm pretty sure it won't be long for someone to start 'converting' his Si into a 'CTR'. Spending crap loads of money all along the way and ending up with a disaster on wheels.

 

by cheap i meant the minor bolt ons they did... how much are you paying for a JDM name there? I could care less who manufactures my parts as long as they are quality parts, and there are plently of USDM aftermarket parts that are quality made.

If you are right about a Type-R here looking the same, then I would be sorely disappointed in Honda. Oh well if it boils down to it I guess I can always buy a white sedan and convert it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's <u>so</u> hard to get rid of the Mugen Si's that it's affecting Honda's opinion of whether or not the JDM CTR would make it here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well with the Mugen there's no power gains. I'm pretty sure that had they added even just 20HP to the car it might be a little more justified to price it at 29K.

If the ITR was succesful (even though it wasn't a good daily driver), then I don't see why a Type R Civic wouldn't be as long as the price go somewhat hand-in-hand with the performance, handling, and power output of the car.

 

*couldn't care less*

also, the mugen si is nothing like the type r...it kind of is like a cheaply modded version of the Si, granted is has a bodykit and suspension/wheels but where are the recaros, and the brembo brakes, and so forth...that's what's missing besides the minor engine/tranny differences between usdm and jdm...