I was interested in how everyone charges? Do you have an hourly rate? Does it very on the work involved? Do you charge per job estimate? I do work for a local shop in a hap hazard structure. A little here and a little there. They are looking to only use me for fab work. I usually just eye ball it as far as how much I think it should cost. I no longer feel that is what I should be doing based on the fact every job they give me is different now and some jobs are buildng complete turbo set ups or will be complete cages. The work is mostly on domestics ie, Corvettes, Mustangs, older muscle cars.

Just looking for input I guess. Thanks for opinions.

Keep in mind I will do most jobs on site, so there is set up time and pack up time.

Thanks
David

 

i love custom tubo v8's...they are beastssssss!!!!!!!

Turbo v8's > sc'ed v8's

post pics

(sorry i added nothing constructive lol)

 

Yeah, its cool work. But there is going to be a lot coming up and I am looking for a good pricing structure that is fair for all parties. This isnt a full time gig for me so I'm not going to starve if I cut deals but on the same token I dont want to work for next to free.

I have a big single on a 68 Camaro with a small block, a big single on a 95 Mustang that made 890 whp with a blower, some air to water plumbing into the cabin on a 70 Camaro with a SBC with twins that made 1100+ hp on the engine dyno, and a complete single kit on a 91 fox body notch.

I will get pics of everything if anyone is interested.

 

We charge $100/hour on custom fabrication but we have a set pricing structure for roll cages ($ per bar/bend/plate/gusset).

 

Thanks for the input.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david@didrace.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We charge $100/hour on custom fabrication but we have a set pricing structure for roll cages ($ per bar/bend/plate/gusset).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is there people that actually pay the $100/hr to have you do fabrication work for them?

And i'm not asking this because I think it is alot of money, I understand that there is lots of overhead involved with owning expensive machinery, large shop space, etc.
It just seems like people now a days want things done for next to nothing.
I'm an electrician and it amazes me how astonished people are when you give them a quote to do a job.

 

Why is $100/hr considered high for custom fabrication work, yet every joe blow has no problem dropping their car off at the dealership for work where they charge $85/hr to swap parts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by robbbby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is there people that actually pay the $100/hr to have you do fabrication work for them?

And i'm not asking this because I think it is alot of money, I understand that there is lots of overhead involved with owning expensive machinery, large shop space, etc.
It just seems like people now a days want things done for next to nothing.
I'm an electrician and it amazes me how astonished people are when you give them a quote to do a job.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is so true, the internet has made people think everything should be free, and your a crook for asking what your time is worth.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by robbbby &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Is there people that actually pay the $100/hr to have you do fabrication work for them?

And i'm not asking this because I think it is alot of money, I understand that there is lots of overhead involved with owning expensive machinery, large shop space, etc.
It just seems like people now a days want things done for next to nothing.
I'm an electrician and it amazes me how astonished people are when you give them a quote to do a job.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I hope you realize Meineke/MR. Tire/Goodyear/etc charge 90+ an hour to change brakes and do exhausts, not to mention the dealer rates anymore.

This is something that I battle constantly with people. They want fabrication done and they expect the materials to be the big cost and the guy who fabs it to hope he can make enough to buy a value meal.

There's a reason people who can't fab pay others to do it for them, and have a hard time finding someone to do it well. 100/hr is cheap in some markets. I know businesses that repair printers charging more than that.


I guess to answer the O.P.....I personally try to estimate jobs on an hourly basis if I've done them before, but generally the first time I do something I'll do it as a flat rate and just work to hit my rate. This is so I mainly can get a feel. The more you do though, and the better you get, the more you should be able to estimate closer what a job is gonna cost you in time, at least that's how it's been for me.

 

IMO on labor you gotta charge by the hour, if you charge flat rate there will be many times you'll shoot yourself in the foot, for instance when you snap bolts break/strip, etc.

 

I always look at the car first and mentally build the part. I look at what i need to remove, the angles, etc. Then I write them an estimate, not a quote. I then tell them that te final price may come within 2 hours of that estimate i.e. two hours.

 

Call up a competitor and ask them what they would do it for!

LOL...I sometimes wish I could do that, but I would feel like a $hithead if I actually got myself to do that.

Sometimes the budget is there and sometimes it isnt...when I price things, i try to find out whats too high and whats too low and make sure their "high" price works nicely for me. I'll quote that price and hopefully get the job, if it turns out to be much easier than expected, i dont pocket the remainder...I actually charge them less knowing it will make for nice repeat business and good referrals

 

$100/hr. estimate high on time and parts. If it doesnt scare the customer off then you know you have someone worth dealing with. If they sit there and try to haggle with you before you do any work, your sure not going to want to deal with them when its time to fork over the cash.

 

We get $100/hr for fabrication work, $85/hr for mechanical labor and $150-200/hr for dyno tuning. People do pay the prices, although you always get some people who are 'experts'. My favorite was a UTI student who comes in asking to have struts installed on his 240SX. We quote him a price, then when he comes to pick it up he tells us how easy it is and that there is no way it took us that long! That's a pretty typical attitude of the younger crowd, but luckily the majority of our customers are adults. Working for nothing will kill a business.

I agree with John Volk. We have been much more selective this year about taking jobs, as we've gotten much better at assessing basket case cars, never-ending-projects, and cheapskate customers whose goals far outweigh their resources.

 

the best is when people come to you for "custom" work because they think it will be cheaper than buying whatever it is already made. "will it be cheaper if i have you build me a manifold instead of buying one off ebay"


i had a guy come to me today with a 4 cylinder turbo mustang that wanted some intercooler piping made. he said he already mounted the intercooler so we went and took a look. popped his hood and the intercooler, air intake, and manual boost controller were all "mounted" with speaker wire (no im not joking). needless to say my estimate was too high lol

 

I over estimate EVERYTHING

 

I charge hourly although most of my work is machining not welding. Sometimes I'll do a one off of something and due to either the cost of the metal (nothing worse the destroying a $250 billet) or because I am using a new type of tooling I will go very slow. In these cases once the job is done I can review it and see where I could have sped up and how long it should have taken. I then bill the customer for how long it should have taken and not how long it took. It sucks to eat the difference but my overhead is low and it builds a great customer base because they are always billed fairly and not over billed because I made the choice to go slow or check the set up 37 times. Alot of my business is repeat customers and referrals though so it's very important that I charge what the job is worth or they will just walk into any other machine shop to have it done.

 

time + material is a good rule of thumb... you also have to have a good sense what the customer will be willing to pay. i'm trying to get more away from the automotive stuff, i actually maybe only spend less than 5% of my time on car stuff because (as mentioned earlier) everyone wants stuff for next to nothing because they can find it cheaper on the interweb so the profit margins are really low. industrial customers are far more willing to fork over what you ask for because it isn't that person's own money, but the company they work for. i have quoted high on some stuff and the customer comes back and we negotiate something. with one particular industrial customer, i've often offered a discount if they can pay me in 10 days instead of the usual 30... either way i win because they are going to pay me sooner than i need the money, or they are going to pay me more for putting it off for longer.

i'll say it again, the car stuff has much smaller profit margins because it is a very competetive market, the down side is that this is the work i enjoy doing moreso...

 

I charge $90 an hour for custom fab, but we are fast so it doesn't add up too quickly.

What I'd like to know is how you guys bill out for other employees, like when its friday and you are rushing to get a car out for the weekend to race and you gotta pull a guy or two out of production and onto the car with you how do you bill them out?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PSI2HI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is so true, the internet has made people think everything should be free, and your a crook for asking what your time is worth.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know that the internet has done that, or started anything. I feel a lot of it comes from experience. Here's a few of mine. Local plumber, Billing me $75/hour. says he forgot some stupid part he needs. I pay him for the 45 minutes to get the part and bring it back, and now he has a fresh coffee and some donuts with him. I paid $56.25 for him to get donuts... He didn't need ****, I watched, he didn't bring anything back with him but the donuts. I don't think "donut gettin" time is worth $75 an hour. ...lol...

Or while the electrician is here at $90 an hour, he gets a 15 minute phone call, or spends 20 minutes chillin with the UPS man... Everyday occurrences. An electrician takes a 25 minute **** I'm out $37.50 because his wife undercooked some chicken...

Or because of their un-organization, I pay for at least an extra hour a day while they "dig around" in some massive box of crap for some thing they need. And then some other thing.

I'm paying a body shop to do some custom fiberglass fenders for my truck. I'm getting billed full shop rate, I happen to be there, and watched him write 2 estimates and take 3 phone calls while the clock is ticking on my build time and dollar. I know there were days I got billed for 8 hours and only got 3-4 hours of actual work done.

I think to say that these are unique situations is not accurate, nor honest. Especially on smaller shops were there is nobody else answering calls, or it's a shared responsibility, nobody else to run parts or pay the utilities, etc. People buggin ya, forums to hang out in... etc.

My carpenter. Working on my rec' room. $80 bucks an hour. Keeps the place perfectly clean. Spends 30 minutes the end of every day, just sweeping up. Costs me $400 for a 2 week build JUST to have the floor swept. How skilled is that? I've got lazy kids of my own that are equally skilled with a broom that will do it for $5. Although everybody with kids knows I'm lying... I'm pretty confident if I handed my son a vacuum cleaner he'd look at it like it was radioactive waste and have no earthly idea how to plug it in or turn it on... (I know this is true, I've been in his room) ...lol...

THAT kind of crap is where people get to hating higher rates. Very seldom is anybody left alone or 100% productive for the entire life of your project.

I'm not hating or trying to start crap. I'm saying this is what has happened to me, and a lot of you as well. Just for perspective.

Can't always blame the guy doing the billing either. I caught myself bending the ear of my electrician one time for about 1/2 an hour talking about cars (he's a car guy). So what is he supposed to do? The guy paying him wants to waste his time? Well, it gets wasted. Brought that one on myself.

It happens.

I think the moral of that story is if you dink around on the job, never let the customer see it. 'Cause we're watching...




Modified by vectorsolid at 3:02 PM 11/14/2007

 

That is so true about most trades wasting time and billing it to jobs.

I don't own my own company but I do write up all my own work orders/billing for the place I do work at. If I find myself needing to leave to go get material a second time because I forgot something, or took a little to long on lunch, I will usually write up the work order for an hour less then what I was actually there. I don't think it's fair that the person should get billed for my laziness or forgetfullness. Maybe I would think differently if it was my own company but I just look at it as being fair and wouldn't want to be billed unfairly if I had someone doing work for me.

 

vectorsolid, half the time's you listed are probably flat rate...

 

I book out our fab department at $65/hr per fabricator. Each employee runs a punch card on each job. I assign an efficiency factor (.80 to .95) to each fabricator and multiply the card hours by their efficiency. The resultant is billed to the customer.

I focus more on ensuring the fab dept has atleast two weeks of booked worked and less on the larger hourly rate. This system has generated solid, repeatable monthly sales figure for us that dont swing with season. Many of our customers charge much higher rates, but many of them don't post anywhere near the net sales for fab we do charging less with more continuous business.

 

most welder/fabricators are 16~20/hr. if your a contractor double it. if your paying for overhead of a business then charge a typical hourly rate $60~$100/hr, especially if you have employees.

if your doing this on paper and letting uncle sam know, you still have to pay income tax and all the other crap, not to mention use tax. you should also be getting paid for all the clerical work you do to, so don't forget it.

if you have to quote before a job and you've never done it, take the time you think it would take X 1.5.

if you lose on it, you'll know better the next time and charge more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRMB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I book out our fab department at $65/hr per fabricator. Each employee runs a punch card on each job. I assign an efficiency factor (.80 to .95) to each fabricator and multiply the card hours by their efficiency. The resultant is billed to the customer.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Can you elaborate on this more?