<U>ok my friend has a 1991 accord ex. </U>

we just replaced the camshaft seal because it was leaking oil bad. after we put everything back together and check the timing. turn the key on and it justs turns over like it wants to start but wont. can anyone verify the timing marker? i timed it to tdc cylinder number one. checked the white marker on the flywheel to make sure it was dead on and also alined the marking on the cam gear for UP and side lines even w/ the timing cover. also have the dizzy rotor turned to number one cylinder! IF IM DOING THIS WRONG PLEASE LET ME KNOW OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT COULD BE WRONG IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!!! THANKS

<U>Car does have fuel and spark. But will there be spark goin to the spark plugs if they arent gap'd right?</U>





Modified by SpoonEk253 at 9:10 PM 10/29/2007

 

also to note....the car was previously running and in good condition. we also changed the spark plugs to bosch. will the car not start if the spark plugs not gap'd right?causing it to get no or little spark?

 

90-93 Accords had a recall on the dizzys. I believe it was the cyl. position sensor. I had had to replace the dist. 3 times on my old accord due to that. Its been awhile since i've worked under the hood of that year accord but I believe the cyl. position sensor has to be serviced as a whole with the dist. I know it sounds random that it just quit working like that, but will almost guarantee thats the problem. I am not sure how to test the Cyl. pos sensor at the moment but i'm sure there is a way.

 

I think its may be the ignition control module that I meant to say instead. Its been so long since ive been around 90-93 accords that I cant remember.

 

so even though the car was working right before we took it apart, the ignition control module went out all of a sudden? is there anyway to confirm for sure that it was that?

Is it possible that the ignitor is not strong enough to light a spark for the spark plugs because its not gap'd right?

 

Double check that cam timing something has to be amiss there, and although Bosch plugs kinda suck the gap would have to be way off for it not to run. At least it would run rough. The white marker is TDC, and if the module went out it would not have any spark at all

Ps just a weird question but did you put the key back in the cam gear?? don't be offended I've seen (and done) dumber **** than that

 

yea i put that litttle key behind the cam gear back and yes bosch does suck but do you know if im suppose to be basing my tdc on the white markers off the flywheel hole or off the crank pulley because on the crank pulley i only see 2 red marks no white marks? anyone gotta picture for me to refer to...

 

easy way to find TDC is to pull cyl num 1 spark plug out and take a long screwdriver or extension and place it all the way down the tube till it hits the piston head. take a 19mm socket to the crank pulley and rotate counter clockwise till u feel the piston go all the way up forcing the screwdriver or extension up. once u feel it go all the way up and start to come down;you need to get the piston at the upper most point. then u are at TDC.

i have a F22B2 and i know at this point if u look down at the crank there should be a single mark on the crank pulley and 3 other marks to left.. Then of corse the cam marks on the gears level with the head and the arrow up...

hope this helpped and GL and let us know the fix

 

did yuo take off the wires from the dizzy? maybe yuo got'em in the wrong order

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NeKe1point0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">easy way to find TDC is to pull cyl num 1 spark plug out and take a long screwdriver or extension and place it all the way down the tube till it hits the piston head. take a 19mm socket to the crank pulley and rotate counter clockwise till u feel the piston go all the way up forcing the screwdriver or extension up. once u feel it go all the way up and start to come down;you need to get the piston at the upper most point. then u are at TDC.

i have a F22B2 and i know at this point if u look down at the crank there should be a single mark on the crank pulley and 3 other marks to left.. Then of corse the cam marks on the gears level with the head and the arrow up...

hope this helpped and GL and let us know the fix </TD></TR></TABLE>

so will the single mark be a lash in the crank pulley or will it be a color marking because i only saw the 2 red markings nothing following after or before that i can visiably see and when i do the long screwdriver method and the #1 piston reaches TDC i see the 2 red markings go in between a line thats towards the top of the bottom timing belt cover right below the driver side motor mount to the left if your looking down above the driver side to the crank.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marshun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did yuo take off the wires from the dizzy? maybe yuo got'em in the wrong order </TD></TR></TABLE>

i did take them off then put them back on in the following order 1-3-4-2 from bottom left going clockwise

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonEk253 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so will the single mark be a lash in the crank pulley or will it be a color marking because i only saw the 2 red markings nothing following after or before that i can visiably see and when i do the long screwdriver method and the #1 piston reaches TDC i see the 2 red markings go in between a line thats towards the top of the bottom timing belt cover right below the driver side motor mount to the left if your looking down above the driver side to the crank.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not sure about the markings on the 91 they coulda changed it in the newer motor, i guess i would inspect the crank pulley one more time, who knows could be that the crank pulley is really dirty or something ? but if cylnder one piston is up all the way this is TDC.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonEk253 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i did take them off then put them back on in the following order 1-3-4-2 from bottom left going clockwise</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is right

 

well i had to say it cause sometimes thats something thats overlooked.

but i guess you know what yer doin.

is there spark? or is it weak?

 

if you would tell me if your engine has the balancer belt and the front and rear balancers in your engine, i may be able to make direct comments your problem since i did my timing and balancer belt replacements on my "95 B2 4 cyl. engine this past weekend.
if like the '95 B2, then balancers must be aligned for that belt and of course the timing belt is installed with dist. rotor pointing to #1 plug terminal-plug closest to engine front-; cam sprocket mark up, and crank mark on sprocket at vertical which is behind the power steering and aircon pulleys- the white and red mark on the outside of pulley is for disty. timing and should not be necessary if disty. was not turned.

 

the solution here is real simple
2 things could be wrong,
#1 either cam timing is off
# 2 plug wires installed wrong in distr cap

Forget about the crank pulley up to 93 accord tdc mark is on the flywheel ( torque converter ( at) line up the white mark on the flywheel, cam pulley up mark facing up, notches on cam pulley line with the head . If so cam timing is correct

# 1 in dizzy usually has an a or a1 stamped on it from there you go i-3-4-2 clockwise I am willing to bet you installed wires in wrong spot

here it goes , plug wires in dizzy ..

http://www.honda-acura.net/for...07840

 

probably cam timing but the spark plug wires are in right location on the dizzy and on the head, plus im lost about the whole alining the crank pulley w/ the cam gear markings because i only see the red markings no white marking following or before the red ones. maybe i gotta clean it alittle to see. but i'll get more details tonight when i work on it again! thanks fella's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonEk253 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Car does have fuel and spark. But will there be spark goin to the spark plugs if they arent gap'd right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It should fire up if you have air and compression even if they aren't gapped right.
These are the only 2 things missing for it to fire up.
Do a quick compression test.
That will tell you if the camshaft is installed correctly.

 

ok so i got the car to start....the marking that i didnt get was the one on the backside of the crank pulley. i actually had to removed that inorder to time the motor.

But now since i've started the motor its idling around 1800-2000rpm's throttle cable is released all the way so the throttle is closed and it still idling high. could there be a vacuum line that i forgot to put back on thats causing this? i had to remove the intake housing and vacuum lines inorder to get to the fuel filter and do a headgasket installation.

 

ttt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SpoonEk253 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok so i got the car to start....the marking that i didnt get was the one on the backside of the crank pulley. i actually had to removed that inorder to time the motor.

But now since i've started the motor its idling around 1800-2000rpm's throttle cable is released all the way so the throttle is closed and it still idling high. could there be a vacuum line that i forgot to put back on thats causing this? i had to remove the intake housing and vacuum lines inorder to get to the fuel filter and do a headgasket installation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok now you r saying things that you did not say before,,,,,,I thought you said that car was running fine BEFORE YOU REPLACED CAM SEAL AND PLUGS..
If you did the head gasket and fuel filter before cam seal and plugs and car was running ok then it should not be something that you did during the head gasket or fuel filter replacement .......
Usually a vacc leak will also make the idle surge ,, dizzy is not too advanced ??

 

yes headgasket n fuel filter were donw before the cam seal but we started it after it was done and it was fine other than we noticed that the cam seal was leaking mad oil so we had to take it off again. i might of miss'd a vacuum hose not sure. but what was is advance and retard on the dizzy. Is it clock wise retard and advance is counter?

 

well, the haynes book for the '95 says to turn crank counterclockwise, so engine must turn that way. so timing marks for ignition would have the advance mark before the tdc mark-like at +/-11 o'clock and 12 o'clock for tdc mark.

 

i know that but you can only do that with a timing gun to determine where ur timing markers are located while the car is running. But my question is if i turn the distributor left will it advance or retard it? but i got a high ldle problem now, but it could also be from not putting a vacuum line in the right place.

 

thats right about the light.
sorry don't know which way to turn disty as i use trial and error.
my advice is don"t turn disty without the light to properly time car. if you have not turned disty before, your timing is likely o.k.
my vacuum experiences have been with my mazda and when i have a leak my idle can bounce RPM's -irregular idle-but my idle generally goes down and if a really bad leak will kill engine.

 

ok gotcha....the only problem im having w/ the idle is it instantly go to 2000rpm at start and slowly go down a couple hundred and stay around 1500 maybe i might of forgot a vacuum line not sure but imma have to look tonight and see why its doing that