Today I replaced my busted gc front spring isolators with enerygy suspension ones. During a short 10 mile test drive I jacked the car up and noticed the new isolators are not staying seated in the oem pillow mounts..Anyone know what can be causing this? I followed the GC directions exactly, cut and resused the dust cover etc..For some reason the spring is not seating properly.. I am running 7 inch gc barrel springs, these are an inch shorter than what comes with the standard gc kit, could that be the cause somehow? Are there any aftermarket companies that make upper mounts for the prelude that can be used with yellows, possibly Tein or something? I also attribute this to my uneven ride height since the spring is not seating right...


Thanks in advance..

 

maybe these?

http://www.optionsauto.com/pro...31S70


Says it's for the HA and SS Tein Damper, anyone know if it will work on the Koni??

 

why do you think those are going to solve your problem?

 

because it will eliminate the spring isolator all together which seems to be the issue

 

why don't you just pull the isolators out? that seems like a simple fix

 

because if you look at the inside of the oem prelude upper mount there are rivets that would create an uneven seating surface for the spring, in contrast if you look at an aftermarket mount it is perfectly smooth creating a "flat" seating surface

 

GC top hats?

 

Ok just got off the phone with Ground Control. Consensus why the spring is not seating may due to the fact that I am running a 6" barrel spring and not the standard 8" spring. Apparantly the sleeve in some small way acts as isolator. I have ordered the standard spring and will keep you all updated. Guy I spoke with also suggested I run some rtv at the top of the isolator and "glue" it in to the oem upper pillow mount to keep it from "shifting". Prelude seems to be one of the few Honda models that relies so heavily on the dust cover and spring length in deterimining spring seating.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Halo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok just got off the phone with Ground Control. Consensus why the spring is not seating may due to the fact that I am running a 6" barrel spring and not the standard 8" spring. Apparantly the sleeve in some small way acts as isolator. I have ordered the standard spring and will keep you all updated. Guy I spoke with also suggested I run some rtv at the top of the isolator and "glue" it in to the oem upper pillow mount to keep it from "shifting". Prelude seems to be one of the few Honda models that relies so heavily on the dust cover and spring length in deterimining spring seating.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I thought you said you were running a 7" spring?

I can't see why spring length would make a difference in the spring shifting. I wonder if perhaps Prelude suspension is the kind where springs tend to "bow" under certain situations. Perhaps that's why the shorter spring is tearing up the spring isolators.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I thought you said you were running a 7" spring?

I can't see why spring length would make a difference in the spring shifting. I wonder if perhaps Prelude suspension is the kind where springs tend to "bow" under certain situations. Perhaps that's why the shorter spring is tearing up the spring isolators.</TD></TR></TABLE>

While all DWB hondas see side load, the preludes have always exerted the most extreme example.

There was a prelude racer from texas, and his front suspension was seeing so much side load that his damper had 'wear' marks on it from the side load.

Tq down the shock fork bolt while loaded should help, but for some reason it seems the prelude has this problem more so then any other car.

Lee grimes from koni said he had dealt with the issue on a few different prelude race cars.

Any one have a picture of the prelude front suspension? i know the rear is different from other hondas maybe the front is too.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I thought you said you were running a 7" spring?

I can't see why spring length would make a difference in the spring shifting. I wonder if perhaps Prelude suspension is the kind where springs tend to "bow" under certain situations. Perhaps that's why the shorter spring is tearing up the spring isolators.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I thought that too, but it had been awhile and the rep at GC reminded me of my order and it was in-fact a 6" barrel spring which is starting to explain it all.He said exactly what you just said that the spring was too short for the shock and was causing "bowing" hence incorrect seating under compression and decompression



Modified by Halo at 2:57 PM 10/29/2007

 

will take comprehensive pics when I get the springs slammed_93_hatch..I have had my lude for a little over a year now, it is a wonderful car but it does have it's eccentricities

 

Ran across this interesting Honda TSB regarding the CRV upper mount. Interstingly mine pulls to the right or left as well when the spring becomes unseated..Looks to be the identical issue the lude has


http://www.hondasuv.com/crv/viewtopic.php?t=444




Modified by Halo at 3:36 PM 10/29/2007

 

For those that care..lol

Dear xxxx,

Our pillowball upper mount for the front will not fit your Koni shocks,

which has a 12mm dia. shaft. I checked on the I.D, of the parts you
listed
me and they are all smaller than 12mm. SAP43-96227 has a I.D. of 10mm,

PMP04-98467 has an I.D. of 10.5mm, PMP05-98375 has an I.D. of 10.5mm.
The
part number of our front pillowball mount for a Prelude is ( 92-96:
PRH28-31S70, 97-02: PRH58-31S70), these will work on our coilovers and
have
not been tested on others. If any other questions please e-mail or
call in
again.

Thank you for your interest in TEIN High Performance suspension
products.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to let us know.

Best regards,
Sales

Staff @ TEIN USA INC.
9798 Firestone Blvd.
Downey, CA 90241
Phone: (562)861-9161
Fax: (562)861-9171
http://www.tein.com


Due to a high volume of e-mails, please include all previous
correspondence.



Modified by Halo at 12:55 PM 10/31/2007

 

TEIN PILLOW MOUNTS DO NOT WORK WITH KONI PISTON SHAFT

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Halo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TEIN PILLOW MOUNTS DO NOT WORK WITH KONI PISTON SHAFT</TD></TR></TABLE>

that could be easily changed with a new set of spacers. Or just drilling out the Tein ones.

 

Yes but you would still have to drill out the spherical bearing in the center, not to mention that the upper and lower collars were designed for that bearing.. Only part I can see reusing is the pillow assembly itself, enlarge opening by .02mm and then go on a life search to find the right collars and bearings, not that it can't be done just looking for an easier soulution I guess

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Any one have a picture of the prelude front suspension? i know the rear is different from other hondas maybe the front is too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here you go. This is the 5g SH suspension. There are a few differences from the Base model, but the main ones are the way the radius rod connects to the subframe, and the fact that it connects to knuckle instead of the lca. Other than that, they're fairly similar.

 

Looks like that TSB for CR-V's is for 2002-2004 models. Didn't those switch to Mac strut front suspensions like the RSX and Civic did? I can see the problem happening with those if the upper insulator isn't installed correctly, since that upper mount has to rotate when you turn the wheels. That doesn't happen on double-wishbone Hondas.

As for suspension, I *think* the Prelude and Accord are fairly similar to Civics and Integras up front. I know there is an upright knuckle and upper and lower arms. The back is completely different, though, with Accords and Preludes having another upright knuckle and wishbone upper arm, whereas Civics and Integras only have a trailing arm with a small beam-type upper arm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Halo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes but you would still have to drill out the spherical bearing in the center, not to mention that the upper and lower collars were designed for that bearing.. Only part I can see reusing is the pillow assembly itself, enlarge opening by .02mm and then go on a life search to find the right collars and bearings, not that it can't be done just looking for an easier soulution I guess</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never seen an spherical upper mount were the shaft fits directly with the bearing. It is always a larger bearing, with a spacer that is down sized.

even tein doesn't make there own Spherical bearings. they buy them from some supplier, and the supplier makes them in different sizes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like that TSB for CR-V's is for 2002-2004 models. Didn't those switch to Mac strut front suspensions like the RSX and Civic did? I can see the problem happening with those if the upper insulator isn't installed correctly, since that upper mount has to rotate when you turn the wheels. That doesn't happen on double-wishbone Hondas.

As for suspension, I *think* the Prelude and Accord are fairly similar to Civics and Integras up front. I know there is an upright knuckle and upper and lower arms. The back is completely different, though, with Accords and Preludes having another upright knuckle and wishbone upper arm, whereas Civics and Integras only have a trailing arm with a small beam-type upper arm.</TD></TR></TABLE>


In the front the major difference with the Prelude is the goofy pillow mount..The center OD is much larger making the dust cover an integral piece..

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slammed_93_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have never seen an spherical upper mount were the shaft fits directly with the bearing. It is always a larger bearing, with a spacer that is down sized.

even tein doesn't make there own Spherical bearings. they buy them from some supplier, and the supplier makes them in different sizes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But wouldn't the Tein spherical bearing be proportiante with the spacer? Clearly the kit they offer is for the oem shock which uses a 10mm piston shaft, so what would the bearing size be 12mm? I still don't see a way around replacing the spherical bearing..Are these put in via press fit? I guess I need to contact Tein again and find out about the bearing o.d