https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2136557

Especially if you've also owned an earlier Civic, you might want to lend a hand in there.

Don't start any fights, and don't flame anybody...but I'm fighting a losing battle in there.

 

Voted for the EP.

I'd probably argue for it to the death but I don't have time to read the thread/get angry right now. I'll read it later.

 

man that is a really hard decision are you wanting to go with a DD or a fun project that you still drive around? What is your budget? That is going to be the biggest effect on which car you should go with becauswe they are both great cars... Good luck with the decision...

 

Budget for them both is about the same. Maybe a thousand more for an EP.

 

With the strong aftermarket following that the b series has I just assumed it was the "cheaper" car to mod. That is not based on any real fact just an assumption. I know you can pick up Engine Management way cheaper with a b-series plus there is a plethora of great condition used parts laying around... IMO.

 

Em1 will always be a legend in my book. The Ep3 is just too mundane. Stock for stock ill thake an Em1.

 

Thats a tough one Georgie, I dunno I have to agree the EM1 is a legend, but heavy. The Ep3, allthough looked apon as the redheaded step child of civics, is growing on me. I think i would rather own the EM1 because of the classic style and IMO better engine.

 

ep3 gets my vote

 

Sorry George, but the Em1 was the last of the 'true' Hondas in my book. If I could only have one car as a fun car/daily, the Em1 would take it.

And admit it...the only reason some of us are satisfied with the newer chassis cars is because we have another (and older) Honda sitting in our garage.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry George, but the Em1 was the last of the 'true' Hondas in my book. If I could only have one car as a fun car/daily, the Em1 would take it.

And admit it...the only reason some of us are satisfied with the newer chassis cars is because we have another (and older) Honda sitting in our garage.</TD></TR></TABLE>

^^^ so true!

 

"true" = b-series?

 

true = lightweight chassis, smaller dimensions, double-wishbone...and you're able to 'feel' the car when driving it. Something the newer chassis has tuned out almost completely. And instead of sitting in the newer car, you sit 'with' the older car. It's difficult to explain, but Honda had it captured from the 88 Civic until the last Integra rolled off the line in 01.

Motor is irrevelant, whether it be a D-series, B-series, etc. Honda never stopped making great motors, just great chassis.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">true = lightweight chassis, smaller dimensions, double-wishbone...and you're able to 'feel' the car when driving it. Something the newer chassis has tuned out almost completely. And instead of sitting in the newer car, you sit 'with' the older car. It's difficult to explain, but Honda had it captured from the 88 Civic until the last Integra rolled off the line in 01.

Motor is irrevelant, whether it be a D-series, B-series, etc. Honda never stopped making great motors, just great chassis.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Yeah you pretty much sumed it up. I drive a Dc5 but my favorite car has been the eg hatch. I sold it for the dc5 and regret selling it.

 

I guess I can agree with that feeling but I know my EP can handle (I have an lateral acceleration meter also). Definitely out handle my EG.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the Em1 was the last of the 'true' Hondas in my book.</TD></TR></TABLE> Its weird you said that, cuz i was thinking the exact same thing. Ide take the em1 cuz its swap friendly(b series to h series to k series) , has reasonable pricing on its aftermarket support, and like the other guy said, "i dont like minivans"

 

the k-series will dominate over the em1 motor

 

I would think a b16 in a lighter car(em1-si,2300CW) vs. a k20a3 in a slightly heavier car (ep3-si,2700CW) would be a good match.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nahonda04 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the k-series will dominate over the em1 motor</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could put a Ferrari motor in a Chevette, but that wouldn't make the Chevette a better car (except maybe on a drag strip).

See where I'm going?

 

I assumed we were talking b16a2 vs k20a3 in the respctive cars, not swapping anything. With that said, I still like the EM1 over the EP3.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyte-S &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I assumed we were talking b16a2 vs k20a3 in the respctive cars, not swapping anything. With that said, I still like the EM1 over the EP3. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, we should be. But my point is that although the K-series is a fantastic motor, it is in a chassis that is less than desirable from a 'fun and performance' standpoint.

 

Agreed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it is in a chassis that is less than desirable from a 'fun and performance' standpoint.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have fun every minute I drive my EP3.

 

if you had an EM1 you'de be saying the same thing about that. Thats like asking a guy if he thinks his gf is hot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...a chassis that is less than desirable from a 'fun and performance' standpoint.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A huge problem is that it's hard to design a small car that is both a five star crash rating and cheap if it has to have double wishbones.

To be crash worthy and still have double wishbones, a car would have to be the size of an Accord or TSX.

I think the changes made with the FG2 are an admission that the EP3 had some issues and was not ideal. But I don't think it's as bad as people are acting. How many people are going to be jumping over gaters at Summit to even notice that half second of uncertainty when it comes down hard on the springs?

As a sporty daily driver, it seems to me the EP3 had a lot to recommend it.

But, hell, what do I know. I am old and slow.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A huge problem is that it's hard to design a small car that is both a five star crash rating and cheap if it has to have double wishbones.

To be crash worthy and still have double wishbones, a car would have to be the size of an Accord or TSX.

I think the changes made with the FG2 are an admission that the EP3 had some issues and was not ideal. But I don't think it's as bad as people are acting. How many people are going to be jumping over gaters at Summit to even notice that half second of uncertainty when it comes down hard on the springs?

As a sporty daily driver, it seems to me the EP3 had a lot to recommend it.

But, hell, what do I know. I am old and slow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know why they made the switch, but this still doesn't mean they should of had such a poor implementation. I mean, to even get the car to rotate 'correctly' on an autox course, you have to have a crazy combination of damper settings and very unbalanced springrates. Both of which lead to a complete **** of a ride for daily driving.

You know the last manufacturer to connect the actual strut (via an ear) to the steering rod end? Early 80's GM FWD products.

The FG2 was fixed up front, but the rear--not so sold on that. Then again the rear of the EP3 had more than its share of issues.

But to sum it up, for the average enthusiast, you can slightly modify the Em1 cheaper and more correct and achieve a much more balanced car for weekend autox/HPDE and daily driving.