Engine swap or Staying True...
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Engine swap or Staying True...
Ok,
So I notice many people here, when it comes to HP gains, engine and performance upgrades, requesting info on parts, all regarding the D17's the verdict always seems to be the same: D17's are slow and will always BE slow. (Wheather or not upgrading and improving D17's is worth it is another part of this discussion).
Now the next step people take in adding the subject at hand dealing with slow D17's are heart transplants, a huge topic that is being more integrated into the auto & import world, and just recently exploding onto the tuning scene, as Engine Swaps are constantly being made easier and more streamlined thus more tangeble and attainable to the lesser experienced of the wrench-worthy crowd.
So...the question at hand? Do we, as not only faithful Honda owners, as the rare, sucessful 7thGen tuning scene, as the end-users of the D17 engine that was born into every one of our rides at date-of-manufacture, stay TRUE to our roots, our Original Equipment and stay with our D17's...or do we decide to step outside the boundaries of the D17 and look for more potent powerplants, seen as more fit to deliver the speed and agility to our wheels as most of us desire?
We all know theres limits to engine tuning and juicing power. The D17 is an example. We all know we cant bolt our parts on and start racing Vettes, we know we cant outperform every tuner at every track event, but the essence of the engine in our cars, to know its supposed to be in that engine bay and that you as the driver, caretaker, and wrenchhead have done everything you can to get as much out of it as you've put in...well thats just an unbreakable passion with the car you own and the engine you've worked. We don't really expect that much from our D17's....but to see yourself transforming that engine into something much better, with your own hands..thats being TRUE. [Then you can focus on the rest of the vehicle...because god KNOWS these things can HANDLE like a dream when worked right...and thats just the beauty of a 7th Gen Civic.]
Or to swap...[which I dont have much of a biased opinion here]...but you can view it as empowering and gifting a 7th Gen Civic with unforseen, unattainable power it could not have acheived without out the countless numbers of hours YOU have invested just getting the thing to sit right in the car to say the least. Its something of an art, an improvisation, and use of extensive knowledge to manufacture your OWN combination of engine and chassis and going BEYOND what many fail to complete and getting it to simply work...and work HARD.
I personally am staying True.
Let me know please because I think everyone here should share a mature, insightful, and respectful view of their OWN beliefs in the Hondas we drive and what we crave to make them better!
Sorry for preaching...just had to let that out. Cheers
So I notice many people here, when it comes to HP gains, engine and performance upgrades, requesting info on parts, all regarding the D17's the verdict always seems to be the same: D17's are slow and will always BE slow. (Wheather or not upgrading and improving D17's is worth it is another part of this discussion).
Now the next step people take in adding the subject at hand dealing with slow D17's are heart transplants, a huge topic that is being more integrated into the auto & import world, and just recently exploding onto the tuning scene, as Engine Swaps are constantly being made easier and more streamlined thus more tangeble and attainable to the lesser experienced of the wrench-worthy crowd.
So...the question at hand? Do we, as not only faithful Honda owners, as the rare, sucessful 7thGen tuning scene, as the end-users of the D17 engine that was born into every one of our rides at date-of-manufacture, stay TRUE to our roots, our Original Equipment and stay with our D17's...or do we decide to step outside the boundaries of the D17 and look for more potent powerplants, seen as more fit to deliver the speed and agility to our wheels as most of us desire?
We all know theres limits to engine tuning and juicing power. The D17 is an example. We all know we cant bolt our parts on and start racing Vettes, we know we cant outperform every tuner at every track event, but the essence of the engine in our cars, to know its supposed to be in that engine bay and that you as the driver, caretaker, and wrenchhead have done everything you can to get as much out of it as you've put in...well thats just an unbreakable passion with the car you own and the engine you've worked. We don't really expect that much from our D17's....but to see yourself transforming that engine into something much better, with your own hands..thats being TRUE. [Then you can focus on the rest of the vehicle...because god KNOWS these things can HANDLE like a dream when worked right...and thats just the beauty of a 7th Gen Civic.]
Or to swap...[which I dont have much of a biased opinion here]...but you can view it as empowering and gifting a 7th Gen Civic with unforseen, unattainable power it could not have acheived without out the countless numbers of hours YOU have invested just getting the thing to sit right in the car to say the least. Its something of an art, an improvisation, and use of extensive knowledge to manufacture your OWN combination of engine and chassis and going BEYOND what many fail to complete and getting it to simply work...and work HARD.
I personally am staying True.
Let me know please because I think everyone here should share a mature, insightful, and respectful view of their OWN beliefs in the Hondas we drive and what we crave to make them better!
Sorry for preaching...just had to let that out. Cheers
D17's are torque-less without tons of money. That's why I swapped. Plus, I felt like reliability would be much higher if I had an engine that was only slightly modified, as opposed to molested, to get the power figures I desire.
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (Nighthawk7thGen)
I disagree with your opinion on 'staying true'.
The reason why so many people do motor swaps on honda civics is the accessibility to parts and the relative simplicity of the swaps. This is the one advantage that the honda civic has over other cars in terms of racing.
There's no right or wrong with what route of modification you take as long as the parts are reliable. But saying you are staying true because you aren't doing a motor swap is ridiculous.
The reason why so many people do motor swaps on honda civics is the accessibility to parts and the relative simplicity of the swaps. This is the one advantage that the honda civic has over other cars in terms of racing.
There's no right or wrong with what route of modification you take as long as the parts are reliable. But saying you are staying true because you aren't doing a motor swap is ridiculous.
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From: The Fugitive Motel
Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (1llmatic)
What the expletive is going on in here...? 
Do whatever works for you. It all depends on what you want as an outcome, it's not as easy as "stay true or swap?".
Do whatever works for you. It all depends on what you want as an outcome, it's not as easy as "stay true or swap?".
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True...
Oh god...
sorry for not clarifying! I feel like an *** now. Im just sayin...cause Im weird like that...I think im gonna stick with modding out a D17 just because theres somethin about that powerplant...and modding it thats just really intriguing to me...idk...
And...if I wanted a K series engine...i woulda bought an RSX. And since I want one after this Civic I have (which im keeping btw)...thered be no point in having essentially a 4 door Civic and a 2 door Civic ( just a rebadged, reworked, higher performance Ac. take on a Civic coupe.)
I guess swapping someday might be really fun...I guess whats holding me back is fear.
anwyays...sorry guys...the D17 still captures me haha!
sorry for not clarifying! I feel like an *** now. Im just sayin...cause Im weird like that...I think im gonna stick with modding out a D17 just because theres somethin about that powerplant...and modding it thats just really intriguing to me...idk...
And...if I wanted a K series engine...i woulda bought an RSX. And since I want one after this Civic I have (which im keeping btw)...thered be no point in having essentially a 4 door Civic and a 2 door Civic ( just a rebadged, reworked, higher performance Ac. take on a Civic coupe.)
I guess swapping someday might be really fun...I guess whats holding me back is fear.
anwyays...sorry guys...the D17 still captures me haha!
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (1llmatic)
Good point!
Haha speaking of weight and not to get off topic...I just want to say YAY for rug removals!
I think I tore out a good 20lbs of carpeting, sound deadening, and insulation off the floor of my ride. That doesnt include the 10 or so pounds that come with the floor mats. And I only weight 150...so that helps too btw!
...what to take out next...?
(already got rid of the GF though...not much left har har)
yeah...still scared of that swap!
boost gets me too
Haha speaking of weight and not to get off topic...I just want to say YAY for rug removals!
I think I tore out a good 20lbs of carpeting, sound deadening, and insulation off the floor of my ride. That doesnt include the 10 or so pounds that come with the floor mats. And I only weight 150...so that helps too btw!
...what to take out next...?
(already got rid of the GF though...not much left har har)
yeah...still scared of that swap!
boost gets me too
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (1llmatic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1llmatic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No fear!
BTW a K-swapped civic is faster than an RSX. (power to weight as the RSX is a super heavy ride)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Should also take into consideration, the k-swapped civic is most likely putting down bigger #'s since the RSX probably doesn't have k-pro and isnt tuned on it.
a SOHC D17 boosted will make more tq and possibly same hp as a K-swapped k20a2 with kpro i/h/e.
SOHC make good torque when boosted.
BTW a K-swapped civic is faster than an RSX. (power to weight as the RSX is a super heavy ride)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Should also take into consideration, the k-swapped civic is most likely putting down bigger #'s since the RSX probably doesn't have k-pro and isnt tuned on it.
a SOHC D17 boosted will make more tq and possibly same hp as a K-swapped k20a2 with kpro i/h/e.
SOHC make good torque when boosted.
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (roost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roost »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Should also take into consideration, the k-swapped civic is most likely putting down bigger #'s since the RSX probably doesn't have k-pro and isnt tuned on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats not really a fair comparison as you can just add the Kpro and tune the RSX just like a k-swapped civic.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nighthawk7thGen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...what to take out next...?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A/C, P/S, Spare Tire...depends how far you want to go with weight reduction.
Should also take into consideration, the k-swapped civic is most likely putting down bigger #'s since the RSX probably doesn't have k-pro and isnt tuned on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats not really a fair comparison as you can just add the Kpro and tune the RSX just like a k-swapped civic.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nighthawk7thGen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...what to take out next...?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A/C, P/S, Spare Tire...depends how far you want to go with weight reduction.
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Re: Engine swap or Staying True... (1llmatic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1llmatic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thats not really a fair comparison as you can just add the Kpro and tune the RSX just like a k-swapped civic.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's just a general census that i really don't see modifed rsx-s of course, but yea that can be the case it could also be boosted too.
but k-swapped civic vs stock rsx-s, k-swapped civic all the way. due to weight and more power.
@ the original poster, D17's are slow stock, but they will never "remain" slow. if i recal right Dezod has a customer pushing in the 400hp with no nitrous pure boost.
Thats not really a fair comparison as you can just add the Kpro and tune the RSX just like a k-swapped civic.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's just a general census that i really don't see modifed rsx-s of course, but yea that can be the case it could also be boosted too.
but k-swapped civic vs stock rsx-s, k-swapped civic all the way. due to weight and more power.
@ the original poster, D17's are slow stock, but they will never "remain" slow. if i recal right Dezod has a customer pushing in the 400hp with no nitrous pure boost.
Re: (Curiouz_G)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curiouz_G »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the main thing about our D17's when boosted is they tend to make ALOT more tq than a k20 with bolt ons. I dont think anyone could argue with that. </TD></TR></TABLE>
No argument here, since I went with the K20's bigger brother.
No argument here, since I went with the K20's bigger brother.
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Re: (Curiouz_G)
In that case...Dezod here I come with my checkbook!
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!
Re: (Nighthawk7thGen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nighthawk7thGen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In that case...Dezod here I come with my checkbook!
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!</TD></TR></TABLE>
1llmatic's car is a boosted K, as well as a bunch of other members here.
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!</TD></TR></TABLE>
1llmatic's car is a boosted K, as well as a bunch of other members here.
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Re: (Nighthawk7thGen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nighthawk7thGen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In that case...Dezod here I come with my checkbook!
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!</TD></TR></TABLE>
piecing together your turbo kit is alot cheaper than dezods kits. plus, youll get what you want and at a pace you can go at if you cant blow 3g's at one time. i know i cant
I dont care how much it take...ill go boost!
That or I hear you can fabricate your own...and I know somebody to make me up a custom manifold. (He's pushin 617 whp out of the last gen Teg sedan...his own custom mani included)
I wonder if theres enough room in our 7ths for a boosted K series. Im sure some1s done it
....god I just wanna hear the sound of a wastegate comin from 4.5 ft. infront of me!</TD></TR></TABLE>
piecing together your turbo kit is alot cheaper than dezods kits. plus, youll get what you want and at a pace you can go at if you cant blow 3g's at one time. i know i cant
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I think... D17's have HUUUGE potiential, and i'd choose to build a D17 from scratch, yes stock it sucks... but something about having a Coil-On-Plug Ignitioned D, with 94.4 stroke just facinates me!!! boost the sucker and drive
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Re: (Curiouz_G)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Curiouz_G »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
piecing together your turbo kit is alot cheaper than dezods kits. plus, youll get what you want and at a pace you can go at if you cant blow 3g's at one time. i know i cant </TD></TR></TABLE>
that is if you know what your doing, some people can peice/fab up a great kit for cheap, others will resort to buying obx manifolds and other cheap parts. just be patient
piecing together your turbo kit is alot cheaper than dezods kits. plus, youll get what you want and at a pace you can go at if you cant blow 3g's at one time. i know i cant
</TD></TR></TABLE>that is if you know what your doing, some people can peice/fab up a great kit for cheap, others will resort to buying obx manifolds and other cheap parts. just be patient
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Re: (roost)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1llmatic's car is a boosted K, as well as a bunch of other members here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not the 1st or the last...there's are alot of boosted k-swapped em2's/es1's out there and its not a matter of having deep pockets. Its how bad you want it and are willing to save to get what you want. If you have deep pockets then its alot easier but i myself don't have deep pockets and i know alot of ppl who do serious mods to their cars that aren't 'living large'. Its about sacrifices.
1llmatic's car is a boosted K, as well as a bunch of other members here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
not the 1st or the last...there's are alot of boosted k-swapped em2's/es1's out there and its not a matter of having deep pockets. Its how bad you want it and are willing to save to get what you want. If you have deep pockets then its alot easier but i myself don't have deep pockets and i know alot of ppl who do serious mods to their cars that aren't 'living large'. Its about sacrifices.
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Re: (1llmatic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1llmatic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
. Its about sacrifices.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup i agree. ramen noodles ftw
. Its about sacrifices.</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup i agree. ramen noodles ftw
Re: (sspem2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sspem2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yup i agree. ramen noodles ftw </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think Ramen should be on the requirement list for a K-swap.
yup i agree. ramen noodles ftw </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think Ramen should be on the requirement list for a K-swap.