im working on a 97 prelude SH..h22a4 with the ATTS..

i swapped that out for the jdm h22a with lsd. i used the original h22a4 distributor, injectors, and wire harness, etc.

everything is done and it wont fire up. im getting code 8 for TDC sensor. i believe that sensor is in the dizzy correct? i dont understand the dizzy was just working fine before i pulled the motor and i dont see how it could go bad just from swapping from one motor to the other. i checked all wiring and plugs.

i took the dizzy apart and there is only 1 sensor inside it unlike all other honda distributors ive seen with 3 sensors inside. since it only has one sensor inside which one is it? tdc, ckp, or cyp ?? where are the other 2?

once i got it running i was going to do the CKF bypass trick but ran into problems with that as well.
http://technet.ff-squad.com/ckftrick.htm
if you look there everyone says its ecu wires C1 and C4...and C11 and C14
problem is there is no C11 and then looking at this link with the ecu pinout its conflicting with the bypass trick link?
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=918703
anyone know what the hell is going on?
i just need this thing to start!!!

 

ok from doing some reading i think the TDC and crank fluctuation sensor is down on the oil pump..

thats too much work swapping out oil pumps, timing gears, sensors etc..


is there any way i can put the internal coil dizzy with all the sensors in it on it and get it wired all up somehow? anyone know which wires on the obd2 harness are for the tdc sensor? or dizzy wires?

 

nevermind im a genius i swaped the jdm dizzy which has all the sensors inside it and wired it all up and runs great.

whoever said you have to swap oil pumps and timing gears and all that bullshit is retarded.

 

I sent ya a IM, id appreciate it if you could help me!! thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nevermind im a genius i swaped the jdm dizzy which has all the sensors inside it and wired it all up and runs great.

whoever said you have to swap oil pumps and timing gears and all that bullshit is retarded.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you want to run the OBDII harness and OBDII distributor, you have to use the OBDII CKP sensor on the OBDII oil pump.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you want to run the OBDII harness and OBDII distributor, you have to use the OBDII CKP sensor on the OBDII oil pump.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i just wanted it to run. of course i have to use the obd2 harness but why would i need to use the obd2 dizzy? i dont. swapped that over to the jdm obd1 dizzy which has all the sensors in it and didnt have to swap oil pumps and everything like everyone else does. but i did have to swap over to obd1 dizzy plug and run 4 wires for the TDC and CKP sensors. didnt take very long though.

the prelude is running great and is going back to the customer.

and btw the TDC sensor is also on the oil pump, not just the CKP. that is where i screwed up in thinking i could just bypass the CKP..wont work because i would still need the TDC sensor and its not there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i just wanted it to run. of course i have to use the obd2 harness but why would i need to use the obd2 dizzy? i dont. swapped that over to the jdm obd1 dizzy which has all the sensors in it and didnt have to swap oil pumps and everything like everyone else does.

the prelude is running great and is going back to the customer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so hmmmm....this boggles me. So are you saying that i could run an OBDI distributor and not take off the CKP sensor from the oil pump? I was under the impression that the OBDII ecu needed to see the CKP on the oil pump......

so really all you did was wire the OBDI distributor to the CKP harness?

 

can you give a better explanation to what you did?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so really all you did was wire the OBDI distributor to the CKP harness?</TD></TR></TABLE>

and TDC sensor. there are two sensors on the oil pump. the one on the left is TDC and the one on the right is CKP.



the TDC you need in order to start the car. the CKP sensor you need in order for the car to run correctly.

now obd1 engines dont have these sensors on the oil pump. they are all in the dizzy. so when you try and put a obd1 h22 into a obd2 chassis you are stuck wtih this dilemma.

soooooo use the jdm obd1 dizzy which has the internal coil and all 3 sensors inside. this popped into my head after reading the countless articles stating you have to swap oil pumps and all that crap. there was no way i was going to do all that especially since i already had the motor in the car. so i found another way easier alternative.


ill explain more tommorrow about wiring since im going to bed right now.

 

Wiring them up like this isn't hard. BUT I've had problems with my car destroying coils regularly and throwing random misfire codes for 3 years now, and I'm trying to track down whats going on.

I believe this to be the problem but I'm not sure yet.....

 

good to know for future reference

 

oh.....so you just did this:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1161140


If thats the case, sure.....thats the way to go when you dont wanna take the motor back out. But if you have the engine out of the car, swapping oil pumps and keeping everything OBDII "by the book" is the best way to go. Most people likely trust their bolt on skills than their wiring skills.

I have to make the move to the OBDI distributor soon in order to make cam gear adjustments so having a good description of how to do the wiring would be something really nice to have.

 

this is what i did as well....

but the question that 98vtec asked made me think of something....

-do the sensors in the dizzy, and the sensors on the oil pump send the same exact signal?

I did this conversion as well, but i'm using an obd1 ecu. Would someone who is using an OBD2 ecu have a problem here, considering the signal isn't coming from the same exact kind of sensor. I realize the sensors are in effect doing the same thing, but if the obd1 and obd2 ecu's are looking for a different kind of signal from these sensors, then using an obd2 ecu on the obd1 sensors may cause a problem.--- I doubt they would, but the thought did pop into my head. anybody know?

 

ok, i just thought of something else.....

what i said earlier was stupid, because if it would cause a problem, then the reverse (using obd1 on the obd2 sensors) would most likely also cause a problem, which we know it doesn't.

so just ignore my incoherent ramblings.

 

we don't know that for sure yet.

this **** is a headache. I'm about to fix my car, hopefully, and will be able to say for sure whether this works or not.

Blake, I've done this writeup plenty of times, just never made it a thread. If I had the time, I'd do a bit of searching and pull up an old post.

Maybe when I'm doing the work I plan on in a week or two I'll take some pics of the wiring I did and make a writeup thread.

Mine has been wired this way since day 1 and I've had problems since. 96 obd2 prelude with a 96 p13 and an obd1 setup under the hood, obd2 engine harness.

btw preludes do not use a CKF sensor

 

If the singals for the TDC and cyp are the same from the dizzy as they are from the oil pump, and i assume they are..then there should be no problem with running the wires from the Distributor to the wiring harness. I am an electrical engineering student and i will verify the signals with an oscillascope as soon as i have time to bring one back home. I will be doing this wiring weekend on my prelude. And then ill do the internal to external conversion.
So im doing JDM F20b Dizzy tapped for TDC and cyp signals to the stock USDM obd2 harness.


Modified by Eucalyptus lude at 3:35 PM 10/24/2007

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the TDC and CKP sensors coming from the oil pump??? not the CYP, which is in obd1 and obd2 distributors....RIGHT??

 

Ok so i got my F20b in my prelude the car starts and idles but i noticed the fuel pump doesnt prime all the time, sometimes it doesnt prime....and sometimes the engine shuts off after idling for a couple seconds. I am using my stock H22 external coil and i am using my F20b's obd2 dizzy because it has the TDC, CYP and CKP sensors built in it. So i removed the internal coil, then installed my external dizzy cap, i wired up all the wires for the 3 sensors to my factory harness. I only have 8 wires coming out of my obd2 f20b dizzy...How come i dont have a tach wire output?
I currently have wired
Now i wired my
CKP wires to my H22 harness
Dizz: Harness:
Blue Blue at oil pump harness
White White at oil pump harness

CYP wires to my H22 harness
Yellow Yellow at h22 harness at dizzy
black black at h22 harness at dizzy

Tdc wires to my H22 harness
Green Green at oil pump harness
red Red at oil pump harness

Now i also connected the Yellow/green to the Yellow green to the H22 harness
and the Black/yellow at the dizzy to the H22 harness.
The car starts and runs however my tachometer doesnt work, obviously this is because i dont have a Drk blue wire coming out of my dizzy... Does the f20b not use a RPM signal at the dizzy?
im really confused and frusterated and would appreciate your help!
PS: I will paypal money to the person who can help me solve my problem.

 

There should be two connectors to the distributor. One of them should have only 2 pins. The first is the power wire, and the second is the blue tachometer wire.

You have a pic of that distributor? I'd like to see it, I don't know of any other obd2 prelude/accord dist that has the sensors inside.

I'm an EE student too, and would love to be able to take an oscilloscope home, though I highly doubt they'd let me. lol I can't believe they'd let you...

Chris, you're right, but he has some funky dist.

 

Hey bud, yeah ill get a picture in the morning. My H22 harness has two plugs on it. correct. My f20b dizzy has one fat plug with 8 wires coming to it. So 6 of these wires are the three signal wires. so i have the CKP(Blue,white) then the CYP(Yel,Black) and the TDC(Grn,Red) Now this leaves us with two more wires on the plug. One is yellow/green this i connected to the yel/green on my H22 harness plug. The last wire is the black/yell and this wire is what i connected to my solid green wire on my H22 harness. Sooo is it that the F20b doesnt have a tach wire? or is the black yellow wire supposed to connect to the Tach(blue) wire on my h22 harness?

coming out of the dizzy? BTW also make sure to notw that im using my external coil, and am using a external dizzy cap. BUT i couldnt remove the internal coil so i just cut the post. Like i said the car starts but it seems like it dies shortly after, obviously my tach doesnt work, and seems like the fuel pump doesnt prime.. im starting it on my h22 ecu so everything should function normally. Hmmmm

 

the yel/green is the icm signal wire

blk/yel is power.

If the dist is meant to be internal coil, then you'll have to change around a few things to get it to run an external coil correctly. Why don't you just use the internal?

is the plug on the dizzy round or a square?

 

I would use internal however my internal dizzy cap is broken! so i have to use the external one. the plug on the obd2 f20b dizzy is a rounded square.

 

You can get another cap, any civic cap will work.

I find it very hard to believe that this thing doesn't have a tach wire, take the cap off, look at the ICM, and see if there isn't a wire attached to all 4 terminals, there *should* be a blue tach wire attached to the terminal on the left side that is bent downward.

Let us know what that looks like.

 

yeah, ill remove the cap again tomorrw. I cut the tower on the old internal coil so me going back to an internal coil is definatly out of the question. Ill look again for a tach singal.. but like i said i am confused to hell as to where it is cause there are clearly 8 wires coming out and they all are accounted for! ill take some pics in the morning.. Grrrrrrrr so odd.

 

the ecu on that car *could* be set up to calculate rpm based off of the sensors in the dist, but who knows.

sourcing another internal coil isn't that hard.

the reason the car isn't running correctly most likely has to do with the fact that the wires that go from the ICM to the coil are right now connected to both the internal and external coils, unless you did some wiring when you *changed* things around.

As a last resort, for a tach signal, you *should* be able to hook to the coil ground, this is the exact way the normal tach works in most cars, I've never messed with this setup though, just because I didn't have to.

The ICM *tells* the coil to fire spark by supplying ground, power is always there, so the car reads rpm based off of how fast the coil is getting ground, and I believe the tach output on the ICM to be exactly the same as the negative output, but I can't be sure without trying it.

If you can, get your hands on a multimeter that has a tach function and you could easily figure that out. Even that oscilloscope you're trying to get your hands on would work. Just get the waveform coming off the negative, and coming off the ICM, and compare.