Well i've been seeing alot discussion on getting/not getting a camber kit, some say you need the camber kit and some say you can just zero out your toe. Whats the deal? For example, if i take my car (with out a camber kit on) in for a alignment, what do they actually do? Do they zero out my toe? Or Would i have to tell the mechanic to zero out my toe? From what i've been reading, neg. camber is a good, but too much will wear your tires. Is a little neg. camber safe in the the rain?Also i read if you zero out your toe, you'll need to rotate your tires every 5k or so???(i usually rotate my tires every 10k) I'm running skunk2's front camber kit and i've seen no wear what so ever. I hope i can get some good insight on this, thx guys.

 

The degree to what a camber kit isnt necessary depends on your ride height.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FalkenSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The degree to what a camber kit isnt necessary depends on your ride height.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'm currently dropped at i'd say 2.5inches in front and 2inchs in the rear...roughly.

 

You can probably get away with no camber kit as long as you have a good alignment.

I'm a firm believer of the "no camber wear" thing but I proved it wrong. My tires did wear out.

 

I'll skip repeating previously stated opinions. These are facts only.

I daily drive my 00 GSR with -4.0* of front camber. -1.3* in the rear. (Its a long story to explain this alignment, sowe'll skip that). After nearly one year of this alignment, I checked my tires with a tread depth gauge, and found even wear on the inside shoulder and center sections. The outer shoulders were worn 1/32" more, which is the opposite of the supposed "camber wear".

My weekend car (1975 Triumph Spitfire) was specified from the factory with -3.75* +- 1* of rear camber ("safer" alignment for a swing axle suspension). I've owned the car for 13 years now, and even with its current -4.75* of rear camber (sagging spring), I have yet to see any signs of "camber wear".

Take that for what you will. But it is an example of two alignments, with extreme camber, both driven daily for a reasonable amount of time (the Spitfire was a daily driver for 2 years), without ever showing any signs of "camber wear".

 

I got facts too, daily driven for 8 months, rear tires are cupped and have the typical "camber wear" and the car was professionaly aligned and have the specs for it. Almost perfect toe.

I thought I was ok until I do some suspension work and see my tires like that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FalkenSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got facts too, daily driven for 8 months, rear tires are cupped and have the typical "camber wear" and the car was professionaly aligned and have the specs for it. Almost perfect toe.

I thought I was ok until I do some suspension work and see my tires like that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Which is why everyone will need to make their own decision concerning these matters.

There are plenty of contradicting examples on the intarweb about this, and I'm not going to call anyone a liar.

On a different note, "cupping" doesn't sound like camber issues.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by http://www.partsamerica.com/Maintena...reProblem.aspx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Cupping can be caused by an unbalanced tire condition, faulty wheel bearings, loose parts, fatigued springs or weak shock absorbers. Check the condition of the shock by forcefully bouncing the front end of the car several times and releasing it on the down stroke. Failure of the vehicle to settle after two strokes suggests worn shocks or struts.

Diagonal scuffing and cupping across the face on rear tires signals problems with toe. Diagonal tread wear or cupping on rear tires is caused when the direction the vehicle's wheels are heading is not in line with the geometric center line of the vehicle. When this condition occurs, front-wheel steering can be affected and lead to tire slip or loss of traction or control. (Note: The wear pattern that develops on rear tires from improper toe will vary depending on tread design. Wear patterns from rear-wheel misalignment may resemble cupping on tires with highway tread design and diagonal scuffing on tires with an all season tread pattern.)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Emphasis added by me.

And again, I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right (including me, there could be some random factor, including driving style, I don't know about that allows me to run insane camber and not see wear).

I will add though, that the factory recommended rear toe setting is not straight ahead, but toe in. And while it will provide high speed and braking stability, it won't be the optimal setting for tire wear. How much toe in is too much, is a question which I won't even claim enough knowledge to try and answer.

FalkenSiR, I am not calling you out. Excessive tire wear sucks, and I hope you don't have to deal with it again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FalkenSiR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got facts too, daily driven for 8 months, rear tires are cupped and have the typical "camber wear" and the car was professionaly aligned and have the specs for it. Almost perfect toe.

I thought I was ok until I do some suspension work and see my tires like that. </TD></TR></TABLE>

8 months ago is a long time. did you have it aligned recently to share what the alignment is NOW?

what shocks and springs are you using?

 

You're complaining about having to rotate tires every 5K miles? You're supposed to be doing that anyway.

I've driven my car for over 150,000 miles since I first lowered it, and in that time I have worn through maybe 5 sets of tires.

That's an average of 30K miles per set of high performance tires like Yokohama ES100's, and most of those were with front camber readings like -2.5, -2.8, etc.

I think the condition of parts like suspension bushings plays a part, also. I'm still on the original rubber bushings (258K on car) and they're pretty worn. That's going to make a difference in keeping the alignment settings in place over time. Lately I've been getting my car's alignment checked and adjusted every 6 months or so, just to make sure it stays where it should be.