Hey guys, I'm still having some tire rubbing issues with my car, and I'm basically just trying to figure out why.

I drive a 1997 Civic Ex coupe, it's lowered 1.9" front and 1.7" rear on Tein S-tech springs with KYB GR2 struts. After it was lowered I took it to Tru-Line suspensions in Bellevue, Washington for a street aggressive alignment setup and to get rid of any camber issues before they surfaced.

For a while I had it running on standard size tires with hubcaps, and on sharp cornering I encounter tire rubbing. I was told from multiple sources that rims with low profile tires would solve the problem, as the side wall does not bulge out as much as the factory tire side wall does.

In any case, research led me to picking up a set of Konig's with 205/45/16 BF Goodrich G-Force Sports.

Lo and behold, after installation I'm still rubbing, and I'm trying to figure out what's up! I'm wondering if maybe the suspension is too soft, or maybe the tire size is wrong?

You guys have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

-Mike.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Artikgrau325is &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and to get rid of any camber issues before they surfaced.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

you have a camber kit? added more positive camber?

thats your problem.

and you didnt need the camber kit....

(sigh, like a broken record....)

 

Negative, I did my research before I lowered my car. I heard camber kits are only necessary if the car is lowered more than 2". But you know how when you just lower a car, and don't get an alignment, you get bad inner tread wear? I went to get an alignment so I wouldn't have to worry about that, they basically straightened the camber out again closer to factory spec (or something) so that tread wear would be even again.

 

that would be toe. where is the tire rubbing?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Artikgrau325is &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> they basically straightened the camber out again closer to factory spec (or something) so that tread wear would be even again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

how did they adjust the camber without a camber kit?

 

Hmm...I know we put some washers in for a shim, but I'm not really an expert on how alignments work. I know that the car pulled a bit to the left and was shakey before I brought it in.

After they did the alignment, the ride was smooth and the handling increased 10-fold.

 

Hold up a second, I'll scan in the documents for the alignment and suspension geometry corrections...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Artikgrau325is &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmm...I know we put some washers in for a shim, but I'm not really an expert on how alignments work.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

well that only changes the camber in the rear. and its not where youre saying you have issues.

so then ok, i guess you dont have a camber kit up front, or else im sure they would have charged you for it, and i dont think that would have gone unnoticed.

is the tire rubbing at the top, near the plastic liner? or on the inside fender wall, like in the front and back of the wheel. that will happen when you use wider tires.

but you said rubbing occured before changing tires.

so then im guessing you are just too lowered. but that shouldnt be the case with S techs. they dont lower THAT much.

tell us where its rubbing exactly.

 

I believe it's on the front tires, on the top where the fender lining is. My friend had me feel underneath the front fenders, and the tapered plastic head that surrounds the screw was basically worn off from driving, whereas on the rears, the plastic head was smooth and untouched.

 

honestly, i think your shocks are too weak. kyb gr2's are stock replacements and are terrible with lowering springs or coilovers (learned this on my first integra)

they might even be blown already.

 

Sorry I couldn't get a higher quality picture...my scanner is being a bastard.



I heard that GR2's were stock replacements...how do you tell if a shock is blown, I put the stock tires back on and the ride quality and everything seems fine.

Oooh, and I see why I confused you, it was the toe and caster he adjusted, not the camber, sorry!

 

actually it does look like the camber was adjusted on the right side, both front and rear. somehow...

anyway, yeah, the shocks probably arent keeping up with the springs either, in terms of providing adequate compression damping. GR2 just suck anyway.

consider getting illuminas for the best performance and value for "performance street" driving.

i still just think at this point, theres nothing really wrong. rubbing just happens and is typical.

 

Alright, I'm happy to hear that it's just weak-link shocks in my suspension system, but as typical as it may be, I'm too scared to try and push my car because of the rubbing...

I heard a lot about the illuminas, do you think I should replace my GR-2's with the illuminas, or go with a Koni/GC combo? I plan to drop the car a bit lower because once I put the 16's on, it's like my car got raised in the air some....

 

illuminas are awesome.

i'm tucking tire with ots g/c rates and it only rubs when im going 65+ (freeways) and hit a bump. this is because my spring rates are too low for my ride height and on another note, i have never felt underdamped with these shocks.

 

lowering the car only makes the rubbing worse.

you could just put more negative camber in quite frankly. that would be a GOOD reason to get a camber kit.

tokico/GC is not a bad combo either.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alexisthemovie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">illuminas are awesome.

i'm tucking tire with ots g/c rates and it only rubs when im going 65+ (freeways) and hit a bump. this is because my spring rates are too low for my ride height and on another note, i have never felt underdamped with these shocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What does "ots " mean?

Sounds like illuminas are the way to go, but like Tyson said lowering would make rubbing worse,

I just don't want to believe that pretty much all of the serious tuners on H-T lowered their car for performance and don't use it because they'll shred up their tires with their fenders.

I want to be lowered enough to look real good, maybe have a little tire tuckage, and not rub unless in extreme circumstances or if I have too many passengers, not during daily driving.

I'm hearing good things about Koni/Gc, and good things about Tokico/gc, which sounds like the better of the two. I hear that the Koni/gc setup is adjustable as well...

I'm just confusing myself now, at this point...

 

GC offers any custom spring rates. but the defailt rate is called "off the shelf" OTS.

just get the OTS rates. and i wouldnt put GC with those GR2's for sure.

 

I see! So if I got say...an OTS Gc/tokico setup, I should be good? I'm checking around ebay right now and I found a set for $495, and it says it's adjustable from 0.5" to 4", but I think it uses a different shock than the ilumina, these ones are blue...

Tokico blue HP, not illuminas...looks like I'll have to order them separately.

 

dont get the blue tokico's. theyre just as bad as the GR2's.

 

Hahah, thanks for catching that one. So the illuminas and a set of ots gc's should be good though, right? Are they still adjustable?

 

yes. shocks are adjustable. spring height is adjustable. you can buy custom spring rates later.

btw, your alignment specs change whenever you change ride heights. just keep that in mind whenever you adjust the springs.

 

Alright, that's all I needed to know for now, time to start saving up for another setup.

Thanks for the help Tyson and Alexisthemovie, I really appreciate it! =D

 

I'm sitting here scratching my head, trying to figure out how in the hell they got the front right camber and caster into the green??

Also I'm guessing they only put washers on the rear right, because the rear left camber didn't change at all.

It seems very odd that stock tires would have been rubbing, because with only -1.3 camber it can't be that low at all. My car is noticeably lower than stock with about -1.5 camber in front, and 205/45-16 tires, and really it only rubs when going up or down my driveway with the wheels turned sharply.

 

I put washers on both of the rear's, know it well because I had to do it myself, I put two washers on either side, in reference to my friend, who said to put about "one" washer per "inch dropped."

How they moved the caster and camber I don't know, these guys are alignment experts tho, this wasn't some $50 job at Sears (the alignment cost me nearly $200!.) They do exotic cars and special tuned race cars, so I guess maybe they have special equipment?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sitting here scratching my head, trying to figure out how in the hell they got the front right camber and caster into the green??

Also I'm guessing they only put washers on the rear right, because the rear left camber didn't change at all.

It seems very odd that stock tires would have been rubbing, because with only -1.3 camber it can't be that low at all. My car is noticeably lower than stock with about -1.5 camber in front, and 205/45-16 tires, and really it only rubs when going up or down my driveway with the wheels turned sharply.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Adjustment of the subframe can change both camber and caster, as it moves the LCA mount points. Because both LCAs are attached to a single subframe, if you add camber to one side you have to subtract it from the other (shift subframe left or right). Caster doesn't have to be moved across the car, since its a measure of how far forward/back the subframe is in relation to the UCAs.

Notice his left front camber increased, as the right front decreased.

I've only heard of people doing this to try and restore stock alignment to a crashed car. I suppose it could also be used to adjust for slightly bent parts, or if the subframe itself has simply migrated from its original location.

Of course, I'm just guessing blindly here, but it is the only way I know to adjust front camber and caster on a stock Civic/Integra. I have no knowledge of other Honda suspensions to comment if this would be feasible on them.

I do know my alignment guy adjusted both the camber and caster on my girlfriend's Audi A4 by shifting the subframe, so I don't think this is some new concept, just a significantly less discussed one. Nicely fixed the cross-caster issue that made the car drift (pull would be a better term) too.

*Edited for clarity


Modified by TunerN00b at 2:24 PM 10/17/2007