Ok, so throughout this past week I've been hearing all kinds of different opinions on strut bars from various articles, friends, forum threads etc. It seems more people argue that strut bars are 90% looks and 10% percent functionality. There is, however a smaller group of people that believe strut bars are excellent chassis stiffeners and make a great improvement on turn in control and steering response. So, facing these two different opinions and not knowing which one i'm better off going with, I'm going to as all you honda-tech suspension masters: Are they a worthy suspension upgrade or a waste of money?

Thanks

 

how are the opinions here going to be different than the two sides of the discussion you already clarified?

 

I'm not specifically looking for different opinions than the ones i've heard, i'm just asking for H-T's opinion. I have no experience with strut bars so I want to base my decision to buy them or not off of the majority's opinion.

 

some ppl think its worth the little bit of chassis stiffening... and some ppl think its a total waste of money.

its the same here at HT.

i like the neuspeed front upper strut bar on my CRX. ive used them on both my CRX and missed it when i didnt have it. it doesnt transform the car, it just helps, and its noticable. given that, i wouldnt bother with a rear strut bar, ive not heard any positive reviews and dont see much going on back there to necessitate. anything else is not worth it either.

other guys will come out and say its worthless, and that they even tried it and didnt feel any difference.

its not a suspension piece. its a structural chassis stiffener.

 

a strut bar is a strut bar is a strut bar.

money is better spent elsewhere. but its up to you.

 

Worthy upgrades? No.

Worthy upgrades include; struts/springs/swaybars/tires/wheels

But i guarantee that you will feel a difference with a couple strut bars. Not like its going to increase turning speed by much. If you want your car to handle, go with struts/springs/sways and a nice set of sticky tires first. Then make adjustments from there.

 

I have a neuspeed front strut bar on both of my cars. They are noticeable mods. However, I wouldn't put them on the top of my "need to buy" list. I'd get it to add finishing touches to your suspension set up.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dvsOasis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a neuspeed front strut bar on both of my cars. They are noticeable mods. However, I wouldn't put them on the top of my "need to buy" list. I'd get it to add finishing touches to your suspension set up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah same here. i just recently got a neuspeed front bar and xbar for my ek hatch as finishing touches on my suspension.

out of all the strut bars, the xbar is the only real bar that i noticed a differnce with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kellogg97rs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are they a worthy suspension upgrade or a waste of money?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They are one of the last items you should buy, and I personally wouldn't bother unless you're getting them for free.

There are much more important things to spend money on first.

If you do buy any, make sure they are a solid component like the OEM or Neuspeed pieces. The ones with Heim joints holding them together are useless.

 

The more you increase the stiffness of the suspension, and the sticker you get with tire compound, then the more upper shock tower braces will help. The less the suspension moves and the less the tires slide when cornering, the more stress it will put on the chassis.

So if you haven't done much to the suspension, then the less of a difference the braces will make. The more you've done, the more of a difference they'll make.

Also, a rear brace makes more sense in a hatchback or wagon, which has no sheet metal bridging the rear upper suspension mounts. Sedans and coupes already have this (where the rear speakers are mounted) so a rear brace is pretty useless on those.

 

If you got some good tires, springs/shocks, sways already,
I'd look into what most people sleep on, BUSHINGS.
Nah, no polyurethane bushings, or hard rubber bushings; OEM.
It's not cheap, but replacing all worn out bushings to OEM status will be noticable than a front sturt bar.

 

Why would you go with OEM over hard rubber?

Seems like a hard rubber bushing would be the best compromise in terms of still keeping some OEM comfort and quiet operation, but having better performance than OEM, and not turning to junk after a couple of years like polyurethane does.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The more you increase the stiffness of the suspension, and the sticker you get with tire compound, then the more upper shock tower braces will help. The less the suspension moves and the less the tires slide when cornering, the more stress it will put on the chassis.

So if you haven't done much to the suspension, then the less of a difference the braces will make. The more you've done, the more of a difference they'll make.

Also, a rear brace makes more sense in a hatchback or wagon, which has no sheet metal bridging the rear upper suspension mounts. Sedans and coupes already have this (where the rear speakers are mounted) so a rear brace is pretty useless on those.</TD></TR></TABLE>



i have both the front strut bar and rear strut bar and i noticed some what of a difference. To the OP, i'd rather have those strut bars than not have them at all. The smart thing to do is get the cheap ebay ones, all of my struts are ebay brand and i have no complaints here. Dont spend $50 plus on one skunk2, tein, etc...bar. Im happy with my bars, 1. like i said you do notice somewhat of a difference 2. i got them all for free so why wouldn't i put them on haha. GL bro

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would you go with OEM over hard rubber?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand what you saying but, I've yet to notice any difference between the two.
Just recently I replaced some of my rear bushings to OEM, while my neighbor chose hard rubber. There was little no difference in comfort, noise, and performance. We noticed it was a little stiffer, but not enough to notice on the streets. We'll have to wait and see what happens in the long run.

 

The only time's I notice a difference between having strut bars and not is when

1: I brake hard on an uneven road (no clue why)
2: I brake around a corner
3: I'm hauling *** around a corner

1991 Civic sedan on KYB struts and shocks
I do agree that those would be the last on your list
I have noticed NO difference between Ebay or brand name strut bars

 

why r you braking hard around corners?

 

Off ramps!

 

OP: strut bars... http://e30m3performance.com/my...y.htm

I've run strut bars since I first lowered my car, the difference is noticable over rough sections of road and especially over rail road tracks.
After I started tracking my car the effects of the strut bars are even more noticable. the less the chassis flexes the more the suspension has to do it's work.

I've also noticed that the more miles that are on the chassis the more it will benefit from strut bars.

 

you get better steering response with the bars

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by REAL TIME &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you get better steering response with the bars</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not really.

I got better steering response by using wider wheels.

I got better steering response by dialing in some toe-out.

I got better steering response by re-bushing the steering rack.

When I added and/or removed a strut tower brace, I didn't notice a damn thing. I sure as heck didn't see any results in lap times, positive or negative.

The chassis of your average '88+ Honda vehicle does not flex that much. '96+ decidedly less so.

 

i got a better steering response with upper strut bar.

less chassis flex means quicker response. shrug.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">less chassis flex means quicker response. shrug.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, because my chassis is bending in half every time I move the wheel

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yeah, because my chassis is bending in half every time I move the wheel </TD></TR></TABLE>
i assume your over reaction is a sign of sarcasm and disbelief.

do you really want to ignore the fact that force vectors change whenever you change direction? and that forces travel through the chassis? from input (steering) to output (body flex), you dont think theres a time delay?

when a company, like honda, introduces mid model year changes and says "chassis rigidity increased 12%", what do you think they are trying to accomplish?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do you really want to ignore the fact that force vectors change whenever you change direction? and that forces travel through the chassis? from input (steering) to output (body flex), you dont think theres a time delay?</TD></TR></TABLE>
How long is that time delay, and what is its effect upon lap times? If there is no effect, then the delay is negligible, and not worth spending time and money trying to fix when there are bigger fish to fry.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">when a company, like honda, introduces mid model year changes and says "chassis rigidity increased 12%", what do you think they are trying to accomplish?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Filling up the "improvements" list to make it look like they did something that's worth your money?

I put Hondas old and new through their paces every day as part of my job. I can easily feel a difference between an old soggy chassis and a new rigid one (an EK is perceptibly stiffer than an EF, and an '86-90 Legend is like a wet noodle compared to the isolated feeling you get from a CM Accord), but what does that difference really mean?

You can make a new Civic as stiff as you want to. An '06 Civic DX is still not going to beat an '89 Civic Si around an autocross course, because there are many more factors going on that are more important. You can think like an engineer and over-analyze specs and vectors and materials on paper, or you can think like a driver/builder and test what will actually make the car faster in the real world for the least investment.

The biggest problem that I have is not that these types of chassis braces are useless. They aren't, and do serve a purpose. My problem is that far too many people don't understand the purpose for and the effects of them, and their benefits are usually overblown. Not to mention, most posts about them involve totally off-the-wall comments like "OMG I was able to take a 25mph corner at 78mph when before I could only manage 53!!!!1!" or "the car has so much less body roll now!!!!!1"

I feel that the main reasons why there are so many options available out there on the market are not because they're so beneficial, but rather that these types of bars are very inexpensive to design and produce (in various configurations and finishes), and are a highly visible modification - that makes it an attractive part to both the manufacturer and the uneducated or inexperienced consumer looking to impress his buddies.

You already know all of this, so I'm preaching to the choir in replying to your posts specifically. Many others on H-T just don't get it though.

 

thanks targa for an intelligent response this time.

im not going to continue to disagree with you, other than agreeing to have a different opinion of "worth". (kinda like i said in the first few posts in response to the OP, eg. opinions differ).

at least you agree that a good strut bar does "improve" ever so slightly the chassis rigidity.

there are perhaps "worthless" parts, but not all parts that dont add faster lap times are worthless. for example, adding a short shifter may not improve my lap times either. but i like the feel of it does to shifting manoeuvre every time. however im not going to buy a cheap aftermarket aluminum one either. i had a friend weld a stock steel one together to my specification.

adding a sub chassis brace to my S2000 definately increased the harmonics of the chassis that going over railroad tracks or bumps in the road made a very subtle, but more solid feel of the car. does it help me lap around the track faster? probably not. but i like it and it was worth the price to me. and you cant even see it. and thats the bottom line: I think its worth it. and thats all that matters to me.