Well i finally got the courage to start investing some cash on making my car all it can be. So I decided to take it to the dyno to see what power it was making before sarting to do big changes... To my surprise it really disapointed me . It made only

power 131.7whp@6900rpm
torque 104.6ft lbs@6600rpm

And the worst thing is that the guy doingthe dyno said my air fuel mixture is way wrong and that it has to much fuel and little air..and what is starnge is that the line looks very good....if someone could help me out tell me what is going on...I have a SKUNK2 pro intake manifold that i am going to putthis weekend...i need help bros





here is my weak steup

KN cold intake
4x2x1 DC Header
Fidanza flywheel
exaust pipe all the way 2" without catalyzer

 

did u get it tuned or was it just a base run for comparison?

your a/f ratios are retarded. u should not be anywhere near 16.5. what ecu are u running? and is it chipped?

 

Woah...you need to add some fuel to that motor before your buying a new one. Get that thing tuned asap!

 

Well the car hasn´t been tuned at all, it is all standart ECU why would it be so messed up??? With only with the changes i made?? I figured the car should be running smooth with the original chip.....could those small changes have messed up the air fuel mixture??? For me this is all new I didn´t know that if i amde these changes i had to tune it as well i thought these changes were plug in and play...

I am running the standart ECU second generation b16 it is a p30 i believe

 

u really need to get that thing tuned before it blows up. u should be making a decent amount more power than what ur making. are u sure that ecu isnt chipped for something else?

put the intake manifold on it and get it tuned as soon as you can.

 

I am almost 100% that is not chipped. WHen i bouth the car it had 40thousand miles on it. Bought it and drove 30thousand miles already and never had issues exept now that i put it in the dyno....the air fuel mixture was measured with a sensor on the exaust pipe.

 

why are you only reving to 7400 rpm and you are way too lean under those conditions you made good power but richen it up and rev higher and you will see more power gains

 

are you throwing any check engine lights? u might have a bad o2 sensor or sensors. does theis header u have, have an o2 sensor bung r are you just running 1?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ghostskinner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why are you only reving to 7400 rpm and you are way too lean under those conditions you made good power but richen it up and rev higher and you will see more power gains</TD></TR></TABLE>

duh. we all know that but what were trying to figure out is why he is running so lean with a stock ecu. read the whole thread.

 

the header has one hole for one sensor i have just umplugged from the original and conected it to the new header. I reved the car to it´s max i think the dyno might be a little off on the rev line i don´t know I figured the peak power should have been at 7600 and not 6900....


well i thought there was too much fuel but you all are saying it is too little hummm...well i am planning to have my car tuned next week and hopefully all will be well.....

Is there a possibility by this graph that the fuel filter is bad or the fuel pump is not 100%????

 

bent valve will make the a/f run lean

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cartune network &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">are you throwing any check engine lights? u might have a bad o2 sensor or sensors. does theis header u have, have an o2 sensor bung r are you just running 1?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The O2 sensor isn't even being "read" by the ECU under WOT, so that arguement is worthless...

The car is lean yes, but no, its not going to blow up. Far from it. Whomever said that clearly has no idea what they are talking about.


The dyno looks about right in terms of horsepower and torque for a 100% stock B16. Figure approx 15% drivetrain loss. 131 * 1.15 = 150hp. Since I don't know the dyno or conditions you were in, I would say its within range. I have typically seen 100% B16's dyno between 130-140whp, again you are good. Considering the "lean" nature of the run as well. Chip it and tune it would be my first reccomendation. See what you can make powerwise as the car sits, then start adding parts. As you do, retune, etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The car is lean yes, but no, its not going to blow up. Far from it. Whomever said that clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

15+ afr from below 4k and up to 6.4kprms are not detrimental for an engine? wow...

 

Hey, guys. Lookie where he's at. Freakin' Brazil. They have a heavy dose of ethanol in their fuel there (~22%) which burns at a much lower A/F ratio (9.5:1 or so) so those little injectors and the ECU are probably maxed out on the adjustment range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E...razil

Get some larger injectors and retune to fix your Air/fuel ratio. Once you do that you can probably advance the ignition timing a couple degrees to get a little more power.

Pirate

 

While it never great to compare dyno number to dyno number here is my bone stock b16a first gen on a mustang dyno

The final numbers were 131hp and 92.4tq with ~12.8afr. Could the sensor at the tail pipe be off? Do you have a exhaust leak that would lean it out?

 

I chatted with a friend who tunes lot´s of cars in Canada and we came up with two things......first we must take in account the fuel which today is 24%ethanol and between 88-89 octane. Second since I have a custom catback exaust the sensor did not sit very well since it has a double round layer ....so it kept shaking a lot what could have made it read a wrong mixture by picking up air from outside the exaust pipe.

So it might not be as lean as it looks, after lookingt at the dyno blacklude posted i think it is not so bad taking in account the fuel and other things.

Instead of measuring the air and fuel mixture fromthe end of the exaust could it be possible to umplugg the exaust sensor and plug it right in there to get better precision????

Thanks everyone for helping me out I will definately get it tuned next week and i will post it here to see if we can get better numbers out of it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris Tune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

15+ afr from below 4k and up to 6.4kprms are not detrimental for an engine? wow...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am sure its not the most intelligent thing to do, but do you also realize where the dyno reads the A/F from? Its clear back at the tailpipe, POST cat.

Keep educating yourself. Perhaps someday you will be able to post like you know what you are talking about and someone might actually believe you. Until then, leave your comments out of it, we don't need more smart asses who offer no help.

 

that power is 100percent dead on for that motor, no doubt.

as far as your AF goes, if using a sniffer set up, i could see maybe a full point leaner, but i could also see thier wideband being bad, or depending on how it was set up or what kind of set up it was, maybe there wasnt enough gasses flowing over the sensor to get a perfect reading.

if the car is almost stock, or stock and on a stock ecu, then i really dont see it being that bad,

also, it seems like ever since you got the car dyno'd you are freaked out as if the car is running bad, is the car running crappy?

 

I doubt that the A/F ratio seen on the graph is accurate-exhaust leak or faulty wideband. Power and torque seem about right. If you plan on tuning it, connect the wideband dirctly to your O2 bung.

 

The car runs good never had problems with it, i had better throttle response maybe a year ago but further from that it seems fine it idles good. I was just really surprised at the numbers i made 131.7 hp from the changes i made, seemed low to me, since basically from what i gathered most b16a2 without changes make this number. When i put everything together i realized that the car must have read wrong or the positioning of the sensor might not have been so good becuase if the car was so lean as it showed, i surely don´t think it would have lasted so long without problems, i ran about 35 thousand miles trouble free. It is just that i follow Honda-tech for a long time and i see all the upgrades people do and i do my best here to squeeze some horse power due to the difficulties here in buying parts and tuning and I get a bit disapointed that is all.

###Since all the difficulties here I started doing the plug in play part before going deep internal work but you see I haven´t got much result from it, I have a Skunk2 intake pro manifold that has arrived to me 2 weeks ago and i am planning on installing it tomorrow but after i seen this poor numbers I am not even ecxited anymore since it will probably dispaoint me as well. Someone who knows a lot about this motor do I have to upgrade now to a bigger throttle body???? nWHat would be the best for my application ? I plan on taking this all motor to the best it can be even if takes a while cause for me it is like a love i got for my car...So thanks a lot for all the help that I am getting.

The tunner guy said when he tunes my car he will plug something called Innovate and than put it in the dyno.

 

definitely the ethanol leaning you out. like pirate said, get some bigger injectors and get it retuned and you are set. 25% is a lot.

 

also make sure your fuel filter is ok. Easily overlooked and can definately cause a lean condition.
Low 140's is typically what Ive seen stock b16s put out.
HOW DO YOUR PLUGS LOOK? Any white on them?
You might want to look into an adjustable fuel pressure regulator for the meantime.

 

mate, 131-137 whp is ok for he stock b16a 160ps
thats what we see on dynos everyday..
THERE IS NO WAY... a car with as lean as 15-16a/f would even dyno 131..everyone try that
take a stock b16a with a p30 that post vtec is 12.2-12.3 ... and lean it to 15+ a/f
lets see the loss then

the a/f graph IS WRONG.. dont trust it
find another w/b sensor and measure again

 

The Innovate thing your tuner mentioned is a wideband sensor and should be able to determine your actual air/fuel ratio. You will not gain any power installing that Skunk Pro intake manifold on your B16a. If you've been following HT as you said, you'll find many posts where people compared it to the stock b16a intake. The stock manifold will outperform most any other intake until high rpm. I wouldn't consider changing the stock one until you at least add cams. Your throttlebody size should also be fine as is. From my own experience with b16a's the best way to make power (without going internal) is a good intake like the AEM 2.75" cai, good cams like the Skunk 2 Stage 1's (not pro's) and a decent 2 1/4" cat back exhaust and some form of tuning like Hondata.

Find out what your true air/fuel ratio is, make sure your ignition timing is where it's supposed to be, change fuel filter, possibly have a valve adjustment done, maybe a leakdown test, check your spark plugs to make sure they look good and go from there. If you make sure you have a healthy engine that's tuned properly to start with, you can be less concerned about the dyno numbers.

 

yes thanxs for the advices i will check on my fuel filter, check on the spark plugs and get the results from the wideband to see what my true A/f mixture is at.