these are 2 camber kits from kings just as an example.


most people lower their car without a camber correction kit. what are the major affect besides more tire wear and more - camber. how does this affect the peformance of the car?

anybody know a good setting for the kings camber kit for an example?

i want to lower my car so there won't be any gaps between the tire and wheel well but i don't want to lower the car too much. do you guys think i'll be needing a camber kit? or can i ride without it?


I don't know much about cambers & toe corrections please teach me a few things on this topic and about buying a good camber kit, adjustment on a camber/toe settings.


thanks dudes.

 

Skunk2's are exactly the same

 

unless you want MORE negative camber, dont bother with camber kits.

 

The ideal camber setting will depend on what you are using the car for, the tires you are running, and a bit of your driving style and preference.

A good starting point for an alignment is as follows:

Front:
-1.5 Degrees Negative Camber
1/8" Total Toe Out

Rear:
0 to -.5 Degrees Negative Camber
0 Degrees Toe

I'm sure lots of folks will like to an an opinion about good alignment settings, but I feel this is a conservative neutral starting point.

The King kit, as pictured, is very nice. I have both the front and rear.

 

Well, I tell you something that's really happening to my R. Even having the stock suspension and alligment parameters, my car still needs a camber correction kit at the front. Given it is wearing my front passanger tire from the inside and my alligment tech tried to correct the problem with a little of toe. He said the adjustment is at the top and the only way to correct that factory problem is to install a camber correction kit.

So, I think, even if you're lowering your R half an inch, you'll need a camber kit.

That is if you want to maintain the factory specs. Then, for road racing and auto-x it is another story. There are recommended settings and normally they go with the negative camber tendency.

Good luck!

Eric.

 

you just need a guy that knows how to do an alignment

 

Hummm, that might be good to be taken under cosideration.....
Does someone else have the same problem???

 

i lowered an inch
camber is -1.5 left and -1 right and -1.5 rear
-0- wear

 

I went three years without any kind of camber correction, and for the first two I was fine. Then I ate the pair of AVSis on my front end in about 8 months (damn!). My friend put my car on the alignment rack and found my front camber was -1.6 Left, -1.9 Right.

Instead of a camber kit, my mechanic is going to remove the knuckles and put them in a press to very slightly bend them. I prefer this to the idea of a camber kit, which are often noisy and add more adjustments to come loose.

 

Without a camber kit???

 

hey ausmith
would you have pic of your kings camber kits?

i notice it's all mugen/kings and the all the good stuff with you

 

no camber kits.
I used to have camber kits installed, but i kept snapping axles inside the CV
so i took them out.

 

yeah also i've heard so many stories about camber kit coming loose.
so how do you guys maintan the correct settings. and how often do you guys do an alignment?

 

I lowered my car to the desired camber setting I wanted , played with a few diff ones and arrived at 1.6F/1.2R - no camber kit

I run pretty good amount of neg camber for the street , but with my alignment , camber settings , and driving style my tires wear perfect and despite thecamber in the rear can be VERY tail happy

 

You can't correct camber with toe!

Sure if you adjust your toe, the castor in your car will make your camber change, but it is the TOE that is going to wear out your tires.

I suggest that you run 0 toe on both front and rear if your car is your daily driver.

If it is your secondary car and you do a lot of auto x, you can run a little toe out in the front. The fact that you will be auto-xing and driving the car hard while turning will usually scrub away any "camber-wear" you put on your car from daily driving.

FYI, I run my hatch at -1.7 degrees in front with a skunk2 camber kit. And -1.5 with washers in the back. My TOE is at zero front and back, and I get even wear across my tires.

CAMBER DOES NOT WEAR OUT YOUR TIRES ON A STREET DRIVEN CAR. TOE DOES.

 

Nobody will accept this as a response. Give up now. Save your breath

 

If you want to lower your car to have no gap between the tires and fender lip, that would be pretty low, maybe TOO low.

Anyway, to answer your question, when you lower your car you loose suspension travel unless your dampers have a set of perch for you to set the preload on springs (usually more expensive) so that suspension travel would not be affected by the ride height.

If you do loose suspension travel with the kind of dampers you have, then stiffer springs would be needed so that you won't bounce off the bump stops. Having stiffer springs means that your wheel movement won't be as much, and the dynamic camber change when the suspension is compressed would be decreased. So you need some static negative camber (from above camber kits) to accommodate that. If you are using stiffer springs but without much negative camber, your car would handle like ****. It's a chain reaction.

P.S. Toe is what kills your tires much more severe than camber.


[Modified by Wai, 1:10 PM 6/18/2002]

 

are there any books, reading materials where i can learn more about, camber, toe, caster, and suspension settups?

 

The best way is to start off with a setting from someone you trust, then drive the car yourself and make changes until you find a setting that best suits you. Nothing would beat actual on-track experience.

 

Wai, you are right nothing beats actual on-track experiences. but i don't even understand what TOE, CASTER, AND CAMBER is all about.

i think before i track my car i should understand what they do.

so if you guys know any good books or reading matials in this topic i'll be more then happy to read about it.

 

Hi Takumi

 

Really? Toe is what ate my front tires?

My toe is right within spec (.02" L, .00" R) yet the insides of my front tires were showing steel. How should my toe be set to minimise wear?


[Modified by MK Ultra, 1:37 PM 6/18/2002]

 

Courtesy BPR:

Suspension adjustment-->Affect on vehicle balance--> Symptom of TOO MUCH adjustment

Front spring rate increase. More understeer .Terminal understeer, front of car hops in corners, excess wheelspin in FWD car

Front spring rate decrease. Less understeer. Too much oversteer, oversteer then understeer if spring is so soft that the car bottoms under lean, car bottom excessively with a jolting ride

Rear spring rate increase. More oversteer .Too much oversteer, hop in corners, twitchy

Rear spring rate decrease. Less oversteer. Car understeers, if way too soft car understeers then oversteers as car bottoms out under lean, car bottoms out excessively with a jolting ride

Front antisway bar stiffer. More understeer. Terminal understeer, Lifts inside front tire off the ground which can cause massive wheelspin, also not good for most effective tire usage as inside wheel is now doing nothing

Front antisway bar softer. Less understeer. Oversteer

Rear antisway bar stiffer. More oversteer. Big time oversteer, Can cause the inside rear tie to lift off the ground which is not two bad on a FWD car.

Rear antisway bar softer. Less oversteer. Understeer

Front tire pressure higher. Less understeer. No traction as tire is crowned so more understeer, bad wheel spin, jarring ride, center of tires wears out

Front tire pressure lower. More understeer. Edges of tires wear quickly because tire is folding over, feels mushy, tires chunk because low pressure means more heat build up

Rear tire pressures higher. Less oversteer. No traction as tire is crowned so more oversteer, bad wheel spin on RWD cars, jarring ride, center of tire wears out

Rear tire pressures lower. More oversteer. Edges of tires wear quickly because tire is folding over and cupping upward, feels loose in back, tires chunk because low pressure means more heat build up

More negative camber (Front) Less understeer .Poor braking, car is road crown sensitive, twitchy, tires wear out on the inside edge

Positive camber (F) More understeer .Poor braking, car is road crown sensitive, twitchy, tires wear out on the outside edge You almost never want to have positive camber unless you are a dweeb

More negative camber (R).Less oversteer, more rear grip, less breakaway warning when limit is exceeded/-3 degrees. More oversteer, car feels twitchy in back, tires wear out on inside edge

More positive camber (R) More oversteer Car feels twichy in the back, tires wear out on outside edge

Ride height too low Car twitchy with unpredictable dynamics

Toe-in front. Car is stable while going straight. Turn in is average. Car has slow twichyness under braking, feels odd, kills the outside edge of tires.

Toe-in rear car is less likely to suddenly oversteer when throttle is lifted. Weird slow rocking movement in back, feels slow but still unstable, wears the outside edge of tires.

Toe-out front. Car turns in well, works pretty good in FWD cars as they tend to toe-in under load. Car is real twitchy under braking, car is very road crown sensitive, car wanders on straight road, kills inside edge of tires.

Toe-out rear. Helps the car rotate, useful on tight low speed courses and slalom events. Not to good for street driving, causes lift throttle oversteer, car makes violent side to side rocking motions in rear, tires wear more on insides .

 

: woof woof ed ed woof.

 

Are you saying I am wrong?