Heres my situation. Just did the agbs brake swap on the r. did the agbs rotors, calipers, front stainless lines and optional rear stainless lines. My friend and I bled them properly, did a full fluid flush with ate superblue. Made sure that the resevoir always had fluid so that no air would make it to the abs unit.

Heres my situation:

i was previously running axxis/pbr ultimates front and rear. The agbs came with ebc greenstuff pads. I dont have the "bite" that I am used to, and am 99.99% we did a by the book fluid flush/bleed. Pedal has a soft feel to it and can go down more than im used to. Is this most likely the pads? I am guessing the compound on the greens are not as aggressive as the ultimates?

any help greatly appreciated. pic for reference and more views

 

pedal pressure is most likely a result of the brake hardware or hydraulics, not pad compound. Do the calipers have much larger pistons than itr? That would make the pedal softer with even the best bleed.

 

Bad gasket in MC gave me that softer feeling after fluid change.

 

how did you bleed the brakes?
i agree that maybe the mc seal might have gone bad if you used the pumping the pedal method..

when you open the bleeder and the pedal drops to the floor can damage the seal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EPGONZALEZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how did you bleed the brakes?
i agree that maybe the mc seal might have gone bad if you used the pumping the pedal method..

when you open the bleeder and the pedal drops to the floor can damage the seal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

It's nothing to do with pad compound

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98 ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

x2

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x3

Use a vacuum bleeder.

Axxis Ultimates have a bite?

 

EBC greenstuff are garbage!!!!! fade and warp

go back to your ultimates.

but that has nothing to do with your problem

 

i did use the pedal pumping method, however i did my best to not use too much force when pushing the pedal down. as far as teh seal, is that something thats easily replaced or am i looking at a new mc? thanks

 

i know its not pertinent to the original question

but they didn't manage to get the nickname greenshite pads for nothing

you'd be far better off with the redstuffs. its what i use, far superior pad compound


aside from that, nice setup

 

Casey, Try a new seal, and a set of Cobalt XR3's all the way around...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JjuuN R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Casey, Try a new seal, and a set of Cobalt XR3's all the way around...</TD></TR></TABLE>

whats the part # for the seal? im assuming its a relatively easy fix. i was looking on sons but dont know which part i need

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1slowcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EBC greenstuff are garbage!!!!! fade and warp

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Bullshit.

&lt;--- EBC user for over 5 years. NEVER had that problem.

The only reason someone would say that the greenstuff are garbage is if they bought the pads expecting a race/Auto-x pad. The greenstuff is only slightly better than an OEM pad. People buy them, beat the crap out of them, wonder why they fade out, and then write a bad review about how it "wasn't what they expected". The EBC lineup is pretty easy to read. If you're looking for a comparable pad to the Hawk HP+ ,Cobalt GT, or Ultimates, you look to the Redstuff Ceramic (which are the pads I'm on right now ... and by the way, completely outclass the HP+'s). The greenstuff was never the pad that people suggested they were. They're basically an OEM replacement.

Also, EBC was recently purchased by another company and the lineup has been completely redesigned from the bottom up. You're not going to hear bad reviews of those pads any more.

 

Let me look, the Cobalt XR series pad you can get from Marc aka BlueR, or Victor. You are going to be tracking the car at all?

 

im just going to go with ultimates for the front. from what i remember, theyre roughly $100 less than the cobalts

 

5, 15, and 23... the reason why I say all of them is because there is a chance for you to prevent you from taking it back apart, and 1ll can be had for probably under $10.00 shipped...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98 ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Bullshit.

&lt;--- EBC user for over 5 years. NEVER had that problem.

The only reason someone would say that the greenstuff are garbage is if they bought the pads expecting a race/Auto-x pad. The greenstuff is only slightly better than an OEM pad. People buy them, beat the crap out of them, wonder why they fade out, and then write a bad review about how it "wasn't what they expected". The EBC lineup is pretty easy to read. If you're looking for a comparable pad to the Hawk HP+ ,Cobalt GT, or Ultimates, you look to the Redstuff Ceramic (which are the pads I'm on right now ... and by the way, completely outclass the HP+'s). The greenstuff was never the pad that people suggested they were. They're basically an OEM replacement.

Also, EBC was recently purchased by another company and the lineup has been completely redesigned from the bottom up. You're not going to hear bad reviews of those pads any more.</TD></TR></TABLE>


purchased a set in 01'. they were removed for some cheap autzone things that worked way better. im sure they've updated their tech, but my first experiance was a poor one.
there are MUCH better options from far more reputable companies for the price. screw that euro trash.

 

Just FYI, we use a block of wood under the brake pedal to prevent any seal damage. Before I would start dismantling the booster/MC I'd rebleed again. I would use a vacuum bleeder just incase air worked its way up from the brake lines into you abs modulator.


Modified by Comp97GSR at 6:04 AM 9/17/2007

 

having used both, i'll vouch that Ultimates are not in league with GT-S, new or old compound. that said, i've not tried Red.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Casey &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im just going to go with ultimates for the front. from what i remember, theyre roughly $100 less than the cobalts</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you buy your Ultimates yet? If not PM me b/c I found a great vendor selling them under the PBR name for a lot less than what they typically run.

You are going to absolutely hate the dust on CW wheels. I know I do...

 

dust&gt;rust.

i just think of my wheels as 'now black,' and gladly accept it as a small price to pay for superior braking performance and attendant safety.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Utilitarian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Did you buy your Ultimates yet? If not PM me b/c I found a great vendor selling them under the PBR name for a lot less than what they typically run.

You are going to absolutely hate the dust on CW wheels. I know I do...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

wheres this place? i have ultimates on the back and had them on the front on my itr calipers.

i may just try and do a vacuum bleed(do they rent those at autozone?) and if that doesnt work ill replace the seals.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1slowcivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


purchased a set in 01'. they were removed for some cheap autzone things that worked way better. im sure they've updated their tech, but my first experiance was a poor one.
there are MUCH better options from far more reputable companies for the price. screw that euro trash.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with them. In EBC's defense, there could have been more going on there .... such as a bad bed-in where the pad and rotor didn't chemically bond properly. If you were able to swap out the EBC's for autozone pads that worked "better", something else was going on. Keep in mind that EBC pads get better the older they are. The are definitely not at 100% right out of the box. At about 4-5K miles, they'll start to reach their peak performance (this is the greenstuff I'm talking about though, their track pads are a different story).

And did you say there are more "reputable" companies? EBC was making brake pads while some of the more recent companies founders were still in elementary school. EBC has been making motorsport brake pads for almost 30 years. I really don't think there are many that can say that. There are better brake pads available from other companies, I agree, but I really think that EBC got a bad rap from some stupid internet rumor, and saying that their pads are "****", or "euro trash" is just plain incorrect.

Anyways, Casey, hope it goes well.

 

If you just went to the agbs system, the s2000 caliper (which is the basis of the agbs) has a larger caliper piston diameter. Yes, your pedal WILL travel farther, because to move the piston the same distance, you now need more fluid to be displaced. With the unchanged size of the master cylinder (1"), you now have to increase the stroke (longer pedal travel).

I noticed a significant change in caliper travel when going to NSX calipers front and rear, and am looking at a way to correctly bias them as well as return pedal travel to near-stock.

Just look at it this way, you now have more control over brake modulation. Contrary to people's popular belief, increased pedal travel is not always a bad thing. Too little turns your pedal into an 'on/off' switch.

Just my $0.02, I have nothing helpful to add to the pad debate, I've run cobalts and hawks.

 

correction.. the mugen agbs/s2k caliper has a 54 mm piston , which is SMALLER than the stock itr 57 mm piston, so you should be experiencing a stiffer pedal and less pedal travel. the soft feeling you're describing might be caused by the ebc greens, as i owned a set before and have to agree with others that they suck bigtime

 

just out of curiosity i have bled brakes using the pedal pump procedure for over 15yrs on many vehicles and have never had any damaged seal issues..can someone go into detail what issues have arised from using this method?