-obd1 jdm h22a (10.6:1)
- 9 psi spring (I forgot to log psi(a))
- vtec, 5200rpm
- a/f ratio 12.2 at crossover to ~11.7 and holds fairly steady. (plx r-500)
- 94 sunoco pump
- dist is synced within .5deg.
- crome 1.4.7


I'm trying to get my fuel and timing in the ball park before I hit the dyno (hopefully Friday). I'm running 94 octane and was hearing some pinging RIGHT after the vtec crossover (5200) and throughout. I did some adjustments and I think I may have got rid of it.

This timing seems mega conservative to me as compared to what I've read and seen with other peoples setups. And I think I'm still on the edge of detonation!! I ran 91 octane the other day and had to drain the tank and put 94 back in because it was pinging like crazy. Is this what to expect when tuning an engine with 10.6:1 compression?

I'd appreciate some input from the HT h22 and tuning gurus.

thanks.

 

you need to realize timing output on crome is higher then what the maps are reading. Go into advanced settings / base ignition table and zero those out. then make a pull and see where your at with a fresh set of plugs and read them and also check for aluminum specs on the tip of the plug for detonation

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-LS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to realize timing output on crome is higher then what the maps are reading. Go into advanced settings / base ignition table and zero those out. then make a pull and see where your at with a fresh set of plugs and read them and also check for aluminum specs on the tip of the plug for detonation</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow, one reply and I think the problem was found...

I thought I was done with the advanced tables after nailing the ECT and IAT settings...

I'll give that a try.. THANKS.

 

Where did u get that base ignition table from in crome? I checked mine and it doesn't have it. I'm on cromepro. Does that explain why alot of peoples sleeves or ringlands crack?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostFedDB8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where did u get that base ignition table from in crome? I checked mine and it doesn't have it. I'm on cromepro. Does that explain why alot of peoples sleeves or ringlands crack?</TD></TR></TABLE>

It is at the bottom of the list when you open advance tables should be there.I never realized that i just zeroed mine out

 

Im on version 1.2.5 and I cant seem to find it in the advance tables. weird.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostFedDB8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im on version 1.2.5 and I cant seem to find it in the advance tables. weird.</TD></TR></TABLE>

look at the bottom left of my screen shot. might depend on how you set up your rom? I did at least an hour worth of searching for information on that table and it is like it doesnt exist.

who knows.. i'm getting a little frustrated with crome, I'm told that some features work, some dont (including that table), all the different versions, arbitrary numbers on settings, F1 key is non-existent, my current version does a"critical update" to all my old roms when I load them... my tune was more stable last year with the old version.



I'll try messing with that table later today and report back.

 

I don't really agree with zero'ing that table out. Just simply be aware of the fact that it exists, and that there is more timing added overall. Essentially, when tuning the maps, when you are doing a step retard, or retard per pound of boost, you ARE retarding the timing. So, your overall goal is still being achieved.

If you zero the tables out, your just going to be adding that timing back in in the maps themselves anyway, so why complicate your life further. If the N/A map operates off of that principle, then do your step retard from it and you should be good to go.

I've tuned alot of rides on CROME Pro and I've never zero'd that out, nor have I had any issues not doing so.

Any other experienced tuners use this practice?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I've tuned alot of rides on CROME Pro and I've never zero'd that out, nor have I had any issues not doing so.

Any other experienced tuners use this practice?</TD></TR></TABLE>


but if you didnt know about them and you have the timing tables set to as if those correctins were nto there then the timing can be way to much. thats is why i tiold him to zero them out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i'm getting a little frustrated with crome, I'm told that some features work, some dont (including that table), all the different versions, arbitrary numbers on settings, F1 key is non-existent, my current version does a"critical update" to all my old roms when I load them... my tune was more stable last year with the old version.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

What do you expect for something that was free? By the way... assuming your base timing is set correctly and all the other freeware jazz is right your timing is really retarded. Trying to nail ignition timing on the street is not the best idea.

 

what timing map did you start from?

 

Well, just to be clear, did you build the basemap using P30 code, but transferred over H22 map values, or are those B16 ignition values that you started from?

Also, there are a couple anomalies visible in that timing map, which seem a little out of place given the fact your street tuning. I'd check the graph form, and just smooth it out, and also check the timing on the low map to be sure it isn't interpolating some aggressive figures.

Have you been lookin at the plugs. Is it possible you need a colder plug, or something like that is in play? I'd just check other things before blaming the management.

 

A couple more things:

plugs are bkr-7e's off the top of my head.
gapped at .028.
close loop dump tube this time around.


----

Anyway, this is how it went down today.

I put everything back to the way it was last year. (chip and distributer minus 'a bit') it is around 11degs on the gun!!

I didn't touch the "base ignition timing added" table. I'm trying to avoid major changes to the tables because the car was running good last year. I dont trust crome. I'm not even sure if that table actually works (i've been told it does nothing) but I'm glad that I'm aware of it.

physically the distributer looked advanced, so I'm thinking that maybe the gun I'm using is not precise!!?

***As of right now, I'm not getting any pinging, the car is accelerating like a bat out of hell (vtec crossover is like on/off switch though), the fuel looks good and the colour change on the plugs electrode (cyl 1) is right on the bend.*** the only issue is that the timing gun measurement is wacky at 11deg (time measured as per honda procedure btw) and my idle needed to be tweaked.



no surprises here.. I took a decent amount of timing out mechanically and added a bit of timing back in via crome. fine and dandy but the numbers still seem strange.

RC000E/borat,

I'll spare the long story but I did eventually take the ignition values form a tuned GSR with pretty much the exact same setup as mine. I took ~3 deg out of the map and a deg or two out of the mechanical timing and dialed in the fuel at the track with slicks on. the 'hump' might be slightly offset for an h22 but I didnt think it would be a big deal considering the timing appears to be conservative overall.

The timing worked VERY well last year on the track which surprised me, plugs looked great and the fuel was generally in the high 11's. I was probably running aggressive 'real world' timing and didn't even know it.

The issue started when I finally put my foot down and decided to tune the car "properly" as per HT code of conduct After syncing the dist, the ign table in my first post is the result of what I had to do to get the engine to stock pinging.

interpolation between the high and low map never crossed my mind yet.. they are however within 1 deg. low cam being +1deg more aggressive.

---

Turbo-LS,

Do you have dyno or logging experience messing with that table? IF that table isn't in crome for decoration and actually works than that would explain quite a bit.. but at hte same time, why could I not find previous threads on this topic...? Maybe I should have hit the F1 key - oh wait, F1 does nothing in crome!!

---
PrecisionH23a,

The Crome (pro) that I have is not free. I'd like to start fresh with something else next season and write this off as a lesson learned... well, unless John Cui decides to step it up a notch and release a version with more answers than questions and a friggin help file even.

I'm not trying to nail timing.. I'm just trying to make sense of what is going on with my engine. For the time being, I'm keeping a very close eye on knock value via my plx to figure this issue (that shouldnt exist) out.

thanks for all the replies guys, I know it's frustrating dealing with noobs.

 

Well, at least you got it figured out for the time being. You gonna hit the dyno soon?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RC000E &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well, at least you got it figured out for the time being. You gonna hit the dyno soon?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Later today I hope.

 

spent 2 hours on the dyno yesterday and cleaned everything up. Another hour would have been nice but there is always track tuning.

I wont post the graph because it reads really high (400hp @ 285tq) and this thread will turn into 4 pages of BS. But I think it's imporant to note that I had a relative gain of 60+hp @ 7000rpm between the first and last run.

 

Good job man, I'm glad you got everything figured out. Yes, crome pro is better than the freeware versions... but I still refuse to work with it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">spent 2 hours on the dyno yesterday and cleaned everything up. Another hour would have been nice but there is always track tuning.

I wont post the graph because it reads really high (400hp @ 285tq) and this thread will turn into 4 pages of BS. But I think it's imporant to note that I had a relative gain of 60+hp @ 7000rpm between the first and last run. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Good job. Glad you got everything squared away. Go and run that thing