over the past few weeks i have put together a kit that my friend and i finally finished installing tonight. its made of basically a snow performance pump and controller. the lines i had to make so i can take the car to the track. they were kind of a pain to create but in the end it all worked out alright.

the only problem im having right now is figuring out what pressure to run the pump at. as you can see im going to be doing direct port injection. at the moment i have 4x100ml/min injectors. i quickly rigged the pump up to power to create a current and see just how much water it injected. IT WAS ALOT. the pump was almost turned down all the way. now mind you ill be starting at about 50/50 pure methyl hydrate/water. is this a good place to start? does anyone have some experience with this? i cant base the amount injected to anything i have seen so far so i guess ill just go conservative and see what happens.

 

I, personaly, do not have first hand experience with that type of setup but a friend of mine tryed the exact same thing that you did there, the ONLY difference was he ran his lines on the bottom side of the runners and tapped into the runners on the bottom side as well. he could'nt get it to work out because it was simply too much water/meth getting into the cylinders. But i am curious as to how it may work out for you and if you can get it to run good. Also instead of snow performance he was using aquamist.

 

i though you wanted the spray to be before the throttle body even just so it atomizes. i dont think the goal is to pump your cylinders full of the stuff, rather, to just get it to vaporize and absorb heat. or am i way off? either way your workmanship is very nice and i can respect that

 

injecting before the TB is to help with distribution on a single nozzle setup. taking heat directly out of the combustion chamber (vaporizing the fluids) is likely a more effective method of raising the knock threshold than trying to cool the charge air with water before it reaches the head. Some people do both and will have a nozzle right after the intercooler and one before the head.

That looks like a pretty good setup for big power. Just keep turning up the boost until it doesn't bog

 

might be time for a 3bar!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by whoneedzvtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I, personaly, do not have first hand experience with that type of setup but a friend of mine tryed the exact same thing that you did there, the ONLY difference was he ran his lines on the bottom side of the runners and tapped into the runners on the bottom side as well. he could'nt get it to work out because it was simply too much water/meth getting into the cylinders. But i am curious as to how it may work out for you and if you can get it to run good. Also instead of snow performance he was using aquamist. </TD></TR></TABLE>

do you know the fow rate of the pump or even the flow rate of the jets he was using? my jets are 100ml/min each so ill have 400ml/min going into my motor. however, they dont say at what pressure that is at via the pump. so i did turn down the pump from 150psi to about 50psi. they said 2 turns of the adjustment screw on the pump counterclockwise is about 100psi, so i did 4 turns.

before i do anything im going to keep reading what people have to say. thanks

 

unfortunatly i dont know the flow rate of the jets he was using but im sure it was jet that came with aquamist 1s system and then he just ordered 3 extra jets. the pump was a 150 psi pump, and as far as i know, there is no way to adjust the pressure on an aquamist pump so if your snow performance can be adjusted down that low, you will probably be safe in that sense. but if you can get that work properly and not bog down because too much water/meth getting in there, it will surely produce amazing results.

 

thats alot of meth!

Nice setup, yeah you dont want to over do it, they say 15-25% is the target of meth/water injector to total fuel injected

 

Devils own says:
How much water-alcohol do I need spray?
Generally most cars should aim for 15% of there total fuel flow. Some more wild setups do run as much as 25% of there total fuel flow.

I think you just need to do some basic math and you should be set

 

I think that is gonna be too much meth.

 

Snow performance makes a good kit. Direct port meth is the right way to do ii! Finally, someone that is doing that right.

1cc = 1ml, so each mozzle is 100cc. If 400cc is too much meth, then I guess all the pro cars that use straight meth through 8 1600cc injectors are in trouble lol.

That should be fine as long as you're using the snow controller to activate the pump. Which snow controller are you using? The stage 2 contollers are progressive, so as long as you use one of those, you shouldn't have to worry about it. The progressive controller is the key though.... with the stage 2 snow ones, you dial in a beginning boost pressure to start injecting meth, and an ending pressure where the pump is injecting the full amount of meth. 50/50 is a good combo to start with. I ran straight meth on mine with 2 of the big snow nozzles (they're either 625 or 675, I can't remember). That much meth is not a good idea unless its direct, like you're doing.

Just be careful because most of the nozzles are not designed to be subjected to vacuum, like yours are going to be. What nozzles are you using? Are you 100% sure they're designed to be subjected to vacuum? If not, then the vacuum your engine creates cause the meth to leak past the nozzles, which is not what you want.

 

servion brought up a good point, those h20/meth lines might need some sort of check valve on them. Maybe just a single checkvalve before the distribution block might suffice. A valve would probably be best.

nozzle size will largely depend on what mixture you are shooting for, and power level. I think for 100%meth, your nozzles are too small, but they might work well with a 50/50 mix.

looks good so far though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just be careful because most of the nozzles are not designed to be subjected to vacuum, like yours are going to be. What nozzles are you using? Are you 100% sure they're designed to be subjected to vacuum? If not, then the vacuum your engine creates cause the meth to leak past the nozzles, which is not what you want.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i believe the use of direct injection set ups like this are required to use checkvalves/solenoids to prevent unwanted injection.

100ml/min = 6 gallons/hour thats a normal sized jet, how much power are you aiming for?


Modified by bch5428 at 11:08 AM 8/29/2007

 

I believe checkvalve(s) won't work properly here since the jets are subject to both boost and vac after the throttle plate. A solenoid right before the distribution manifold should do the trick

 

Buy this:



"Shut off solenoid is used when mounting the injection nozzle lower than the reservoir or the reservoir is rear-mounted to prevent gravity flowing. It is also used to prevent siphoning when the injection nozzle is mounted after the throttle body or carburetor and is exposed to vacuum. "

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=20

Like I said, I used two 625cc nozzles on mine.... it worked fine, but I wouldn't recommend that without doing what you're doing--direct port. 100cc will be easy as long as you use the snow progressive controller... just make sure you tune the car.

 

So buddie what we gotta do is get a solenoid from snow performance, they sell them separate and they are calles a "solenoid upgrade" And the issue of "over spray" i think will be solved by the controler. I completly forgot that it is a progressive controler!!! so when we were hooking the pump up to battery power, it was full pressuer where-as when it will be hooked up to the controler it will start lower and progressivly get higher!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grand champ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So buddie what we gotta do is get a solenoid from snow performance, they sell them separate and they are calles a "solenoid upgrade" And the issue of "over spray" i think will be solved by the controler. I completly forgot that it is a progressive controler!!! so when we were hooking the pump up to battery power, it was full pressuer where-as when it will be hooked up to the controler it will start lower and progressivly get higher!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got it Do you have the vc25 or the 100 controller? You can install the solenoid just before the meth distribution block so you only need one of them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bch5428 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i believe the use of direct injection set ups like this are required to use checkvalves/solenoids to prevent unwanted injection.

100ml/min = 6 gallons/hour thats a normal sized jet, how much power are you aiming for?


Modified by bch5428 at 11:08 AM 8/29/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes but im using 4 of the 100ml/min nozzles so that means ill have 24gallons/hr. what about that? or are you thinking ahead of me and already realizing that 100ml/min per combustion chamber is good? or are you thinking its the 100ml/min divided by the 4 cylinders? does this make sense? i just dont want to overdue it!!

thanks for all the help guys. ill write back a bit later when i get another chance

 

i really want to build a custom methanol/water injection system, but i haven't put in the time to research it at all....if you could, would you PM me and give an approximate price unless you want to just post that in the thread itself.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i really want to build a custom methanol/water injection system, but i haven't put in the time to research it at all....if you could, would you PM me and give an approximate price unless you want to just post that in the thread itself.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

pump and controller: approximatly $300

steel braided lines: approximatly $50

misc AN fittings: approximatly $20

custom vacuum manifold converted to a "fuel rail": $5

99.9% methyl hydrate: $7 for 4 litres

water: free!!

tank: $10

i think that is it.

 

sweet thanks! I'll have to figure out how this whole setup works and possibly build one....i was looking at a premade kit (The Devil's Own) but may build one myself out of sheer boredom

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grand champ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So buddie what we gotta do is get a solenoid from snow performance, they sell them separate and they are calles a "solenoid upgrade" And the issue of "over spray" i think will be solved by the controler. I completly forgot that it is a progressive controler!!! so when we were hooking the pump up to battery power, it was full pressuer where-as when it will be hooked up to the controler it will start lower and progressivly get higher!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

oh ok, but does that mean that in low boost, the duration between the pulses is going to be longer? id hate to run the risk of pre det.

but i guess its using pressure rather that flow rate. for example they can use a constant pressure (ie 150psi) but then decrease the flow rate but using less pulses in the electric pump. so each pulse is 150psi but there are fewer of them. now im kinda confused???? i think snow performance's definition of pressure is just decreasing the pulses because when we hooked it up and turned down the pump it injected the same amount but but at longer pulses. did you lose me?

you know what we should do nikko is somehow pump put pressure at the seleniod so it see like 15psi for example which is what ill be using it at. then we can see how much its flowing before the little manifold i made?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sweet thanks! I'll have to figure out how this whole setup works and possibly build one....i was looking at a premade kit (The Devil's Own) but may build one myself out of sheer boredom</TD></TR></TABLE>

build one yourself it will be cheaper. i kinda bought the kit and it came with lines but they need to be steel braided so i can race my car at the track. apparently windshild washer fluid is allowed to go to your windshield via a rubber hose but it cant go to your motor via a rubber hose. weird

 

400ml is a lot of meth, but it might be OK if you turned down the pump pressure.

I am currently using the 375ml nozzle from the snow kit pushing 360whp and it seems quite excessive. Granted I am running full pump pressure.

I do love the individual runner, I would run it for sure, but god that is a bitch to do and keep it looking somewhat factory

 

oh wow full pump pressure with a 375. that does seem alot. have you tried turning down the pump yet? how much boost are you running? im going to have stage one kick in at 4psi and then stage 2 kick in at 10psi and then boost 12psi this year on the stock map sensor and then bump it to 15psi next year.

what is your mixture? how much fuel did you have to take out?