Sorry guys someone played a prank on me pretending to be from one of the companies asking me to remove the thread . By the time i found out it was a joke I had already asked for it to be deleted...Jokes on me.
SO
It is no news that the Sport Compact series is hurting a little and can use more competitors..Now because of the high mph on the CM Kseries integra NHRA has given a 200lb penalty to all K Series..Some might beleive that to be fair while some say its a bit excessive..
In a recent driver meeting at Indy CM was pleeing for a better solution,like maybe giving back 100lbs..
All in all im sure NHRA will come up with a solution.

But for now enquiring minds want to know what the majority thinks about this situation..

This thread is not affiliated with CM nor NHRA,,but keep in mind that both parties visit HT frequently and value our opinions..

 

Back to the question i had in the other post, what did the car weigh before the weight penalty.

Also, the car ran 9.40's and 9.50's before the weight, what did it run after the weight?

 

...point being made is if the car was already over weight, it's not truely a 200 lbs. weight penalty for them.

So the question is, for those not seeing it, how much weight did they have to add to meet the new weight? 200 may sound like a lot, but giving back 100 lbs. may take them close to where they originally were.

 

We weighed 2410 at e-town, with the 200lbs we ran high 9.7s to 9.8s. maxing out the 67.8mm turbo we have on the car. The 200lbs on this car hurts us from the 60 to the 1320. At nopi, we run at 2425lbs with 26x10, and a Full GT4294. This setup runs consistant 9.50s in our car.

 

so with 190lbs added you lost 2-3 tenths?

You guys should just spend more time getting the car dialed in instead of quitting racing it. Get it dialed in good and you can go mid 9's at less than 160. Majority of the B series guys are running 9.7's to 9.8's, same boat as you guys, they don't have it dialed in good enough on the first half.

 

you said 140lbs on your car lost one tenth and a half. So 200lbs = 2 tenths. I dunno why it lost so much, but i am just telling you what happen. Every car is different, but this is what happen to us.

And we went testing a few times at different track still ran the same times and broke 5 trannies while doing it. We quit running that car at 2600lbs because it wasn't worth breaking trannies.

2-3 tenths from 200lbs? You can't count etown weather with us running 9.40s-50s, because on a normal track with normal conditions the car ran 9.60s- 9.70s. Just look at the results from the first NHRA even NOPI results. What times were we running?

 

9.4 bseries and 9.5 k series = k series penalty

 

dammit....

give a maximum displacement , max turbo size, and minimum weight and run what you brung may the better driver win.

 

how does the CM car 60ft? if there is some room to get it to 60ft better add the weight over the front wheels?

I dunno cause not that many guys run the K series in lighter chassis at this point. clutchmasters is really the only ones doing it and it is in that heavy integra.

My opinion is I would rather be under weight and then add weight were I want it to get the car dialed in better.

200lbs might be a bit much but I dont think that is a reason to protest and not race. drag racing is about being consistant not so much how fast you go. I know I am not the lightest or fastest in my class but I still show up to race cause when the light goes green anything can happen

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostR41 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how does the CM car 60ft? if there is some room to get it to 60ft better add the weight over the front wheels?

200lbs might be a bit much but I dont think that is a reason to protest and not race. drag racing is about being consistant not so much how fast you go. I know I am not the lightest or fastest in my class but I still show up to race cause when the light goes green anything can happen</TD></TR></TABLE>


All the 200lbs is on the front, and the front sits 2" lower from the weight. And your right consistancy wins races. How can we be consistant when the tranny breaks more because of the extra 200lbs. Also we were never consistant with this car all year long at NHRA. 10.0s to a perfect track and conditions 9.4/9.5.

 

I dont think they need the 200lb penalty. There is already a turbo limit for the K and B series has been the same e.t. as the fastest K car. You have had 2 cars go 9.43 this year, one B and one K. The same 2 cars run 9.5-9.7's and occasionally run a 9.4. That seems like some good racing to me so why slap a weight penalty on the one with a K motor?

 

If you had 2 cars in 1 class, one of them ran a 12.5 @ 105 and one ran a 12.5 @ 140, would you say it's even competition between the two? Would you say one has an advantage over the other?

I promise, i'm not complaining, i'm just trying to get you guys to see where NHRA is coming from.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you had 2 cars in 1 class, one of them ran a 12.5 @ 105 and one ran a 12.5 @ 140, would you say it's even competition between the two? Would you say one has an advantage over the other?

I promise, i'm not complaining, i'm just trying to get you guys to see where NHRA is coming from. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I totally agree with you on that point tony. The NHRA is trying to make it the set up that wins the races not the amount of power the car has.

even though I am friends with the PRL guys I think the NDRA should be looking at SR20 turbo restrictions over honda stuff. PRL and mazworx both showed those 240's are capable of going really fast one they are dialed in.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by K20Ahondas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the 200lbs is on the front, and the front sits 2" lower from the weight. And your right consistancy wins races. How can we be consistant when the tranny breaks more because of the extra 200lbs. Also we were never consistant with this car all year long at NHRA. 10.0s to a perfect track and conditions 9.4/9.5.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see your point too norris. if the weight is breaking trannies and they want to slow you down make a more strict turbo restriction not make it so the car breaks constantly cause that isnt fun for you or them if they have to constantly clean the track when you throw a bunch of crap through the tranny case.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you had 2 cars in 1 class, one of them ran a 12.5 @ 105 and one ran a 12.5 @ 140, would you say it's even competition between the two? Would you say one has an advantage over the other?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It just means the 140mph car has a huge potential and needs to work on the half track? Maybe is seeing the "potential" that the car has?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by f@sth@tch89 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
give a maximum displacement , max turbo size, and minimum weight and run what you brung may the better driver win. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that would be too easy. besides the NHRA likes all the rules drama. it makes the job fun.

But seriously, uniformity in those areas is way past due.

 

This is Jeremy. For those of you that do not know me i was Norris crew cheif for 9 years. I have not been on in years and hardly ever posted as it was and because of that i forgot my password so I started a new account.With that said no one can say I started this screen name to talk smack or hide online behind a comp!!!

Tony how can you compare a 105 and 140 mph car in this situation that is a 35 mph swing and would be understandable...but in sfwd there is no 35 mph swing between the top runners.It is more like a 5 mph swing!!! Have you or have you not been 160++ have you or have you not been FASTER then the CM integra ever has been?!?!? Now ask yourself how would you personally feel if after ALL the hard work and all nighters you put in at the shop to get your car to were it is you get not only 1 but 2 penalties....to slow you down because you did your homework and your doing your job right.

I just get the feeling from you that its one of those "do as I say not as I do" situations because you sit here and say how its far that the CM crew gets the penalty for what they have done but you dont think t would be far if the shoe was on your foot!!

Jeremy

 

Are there other cars in the class on the K motor and similar setup? If so what times are they running?

Still I really dont see the problem with Giving them the 2 tenths back by taking away the 200 lbs penalty. Breaking parts is worst than loosing the race to me.

The good thing about Being NHRA is that they can always change the rulses again to make it fair. If they decided to add 200 lbs to the B series to slow them down to the K. Then all would bitch and be breaking parts the same way. (Honda on Honda crimes make the Ecotec guys smile)

NHRA, At least give them 100 lbs back and see how it work out.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hwsurnk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Tony how can you compare a 105 and 140 mph car in this situation that is a 35 mph swing and would be understandable...but in sfwd there is no 35 mph swing between the top runners.It is more like a 5 mph swing!!! Have you or have you not been 160++ have you or have you not been FASTER then the CM integra ever has been?!?!? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was trying to get a point across, and apparently you didn't get it...

That being said, 5mph at 160mph is a pretty big power difference.

I have been 160 and 161, all on shitty runs where the car spun the tire alot, both 9.7 passes. When you go 9.4 at 163, that also shows it was a shitty pass, and that's what NHRA sees. If the other cars in the class are running .4's and .5's at 156-158 and you do it with 5-6 more mph, what does that tell you?

Have have not been faster than the CM integra has ever been, it's consistently gone 163+.

Maybe the runs from englishtown should not count against you guys as potential though since the turbo was deemed illegal and you were dq'd for it. I guess you kind of shot yourself in the foot twice with that one.

From what i can see on the results, you guys went from an average of 160+ to an average of 145 after the weight rule. You can't tell me 200lbs slowed you down that far. You have a few runs in the 9's at less than 140mph, that's not the weight.

 

Here's how i see it,

yes the K series "CM" car has still seen 160mph with the turbo limit. Yes the average B series see's 156mph on there turbo limit. But with recent innovations and further testing the B series has shown it can run 160mph also.
So it basically come's down to the first 330'
Some of the top contenders are where they are at not only cause there cars make HP but also cause they have there 330' dialed in almost perfect.
Weight penelties do make it harder on the parts to last as long.
NHRA does what they do to keep competition close, But at the same time they are hitting people hard for innovation. It is a streetclass and these people are pushing the limits of street car status, but when they do find new ways to go faster they get nailed...
I say don't penelize them, and let everyone use there innovations and learn how to drive!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo Ric &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NHRA, At least give them 100 lbs back and see how it work out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think 100lbs is fair.

 

I say give them 200lbs back and close the hole in the hood.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say give them 200lbs back and close the hole in the hood. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say give them 200lbs back and close the hole in the hood. </TD></TR></TABLE>I Agree i think that hole in the hood is a big advantage.

 

i havent been on in a while but i do feel from both sides,

166 from 159/160 is a huge difference in power levels, compare to 140.

but cm team has the backing from alot of other guys that can make the car go fast.

but nhra isnt stupid either, they see a car that goes .40-60s @ over 166.

mr green goes .50s-.70 at 150. with the car dialed in. what do you think would happen if the cm teams integra is dial in like the rest of the top hitters?

 

I wanna see an 8.9X damnit.