Did a bit of searching, nothing solid.

I'm going to do a B16A swap in my 96 Del Sol S.

(I know, not that big of an upgrade over my D16Y7 - I'm a DD, and I just wanna be able to pop the hood and see DOHC VTEC :D )

Anyway, first off, should I bother doing this? Would I get a bit more breaking power? Also, should I be upgrading anything else PRE-SWAP?

Back on topic:

Rear drum to disk
-Difficulity?
-Expense? (anyone have a ball park figure?)

(more OT)
How longs this trial **** last? Been more then a week since I lost my rating points @_@

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1998336

This is the FAQ index. The 4th subheading from the top, says "Suspension/Brakes"

There is a lot of information regarding putting different brakes on your Civic/Del Sol.

Good luck

 

siezed bolts are difficult
expensive if you need to replace things like calipers, hubs, ect

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Xathine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did a bit of searching, nothing solid.

I'm going to do a B16A swap in my 96 Del Sol S.

(I know, not that big of an upgrade over my D16Y7 - I'm a DD, and I just wanna be able to pop the hood and see DOHC VTEC :D )

Anyway, first off, should I bother doing this? Would I get a bit more breaking power? Also, should I be upgrading anything else PRE-SWAP?

Back on topic:

Rear drum to disk
-Difficulity?
-Expense? (anyone have a ball park figure?)

(more OT)
How longs this trial **** last? Been more then a week since I lost my rating points @_@

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Go to a junkyard. Get some trailing arms from a 92-95 ex or 99-00 si or 94-01 gsr or a Del sol si or vtec. these are the easiest since the caliper's brake line holding points are the same.

Get the E brake lines as well. I believe GSR/92-95 ex and Del sol Si cables are the same.


The 14mm bolts holding the LCA to the trailing arm/shock are often frozen and can be a pain.

There isnt much of a braking gain. Try the front brakes from a 94-01GSR/92-00 EX/99-00 Sifor a more dramatic effect.

Why would you say a B16A isnt a big difference from a D16y7? You're listening to the most retarded people on honda tech if you believe that.

106?? hp to 160/170hp not a big difference?!! Plus the gearing is infinitely better. People really underestimate B16As, I think.

They're awesome motors. Good choice.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Why would you say a B16A isnt a big difference from a D16y7? You're listening to the most retarded people on honda tech if you believe that.

106?? hp to 160/170hp not a big difference?!! Plus the gearing is infinitely better. People really underestimate B16As, I think.

They're awesome motors. Good choice. </TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

It's going to be an ALARMING difference.

 

Under VTEC engagement the difference is low. Obviously that changes after 4-5k or so.

Not the best for a daily driver unless you daily wind out to 5k every start in every gear - but whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

As far as the brakes go, Honda drums are MADDDD EASY. Like the drums on my Tercel for example are a pain in the ***, you gotta unscrew the spindle bolt, then there's an outer wheel bearing, and an inner wheel bearing, and there's laces, and some other crap piece, on top of the basic shoes/drum.

Honda drums are simple, just the shoes and the drum.

Will you notice much of a difference in disks from drums? No. The only difference you'll notice is they're not so quick to lock up in emergency stopping situations (drums lock faster). I wouldn't recommend a rear disk swap to anybody unless you got EXTRA, FREE, money (as in you're just LOOKING to buy something). Iono why you're calling him retarded, he's smarter than you.

In a RACING situations, they're A SHITLOAD BETTER. The difference is NULL if you're not raping that motor into the upper RPM band. 0-4k or so you WON'T notice a difference between the motors, it'll feel just like your Y7 or a Y8. It's when VTEC engages and you really wind it up there that it makes its power.

So if you like to wind it up to 6k to shift outta 1st - go for it, you'll love it.

People just don't get it.
HP = Torque x RPM / 5250.

Eliminate 5250 - SIMPLIFIED, HP = Torque X RPM

The B16 has about the same torque as a D16 0-4k and not too much more afterwards. It gets VERY nice HP numbers because of it's peak RPM and VTEC lobes. It makes all usable "race" power in VTEC, like most Honda motors, this is because the sub-standard displacement of 1.6L and 1.8L motors. Torque on naturally aspirated motors has a direct correlation with displacement, since Honda motors are below the industry standard (2.0L) they have to compensate to make power (higher redline).

Remember, in comes down to one simple thing with the B16.

It makes its power by winding out, and before 4 grand, it's got nothing, absolutely nothing.

The only difference is these retards reading spec sheets.

"106 to 160/170? Not a big difference??"

Yes, at the dyno it will score that (not even at the dyno, it'll nail like 140-150 at the dyno), in DAILY DRIVEN 700-4,500 RPM - it won't matter worth of dick opposed to your SOHC. The only thing that makes it better in daily driving (700-4,500 RPM) is that the trans is so ridiculously short that you still accel better regardless of the moot difference in HP early in its RPM band.

Wanna see a funny trick?
DIY @ HOME:
Race a B16a2 vs a D16Y8/Z6 on a 4500 RPM race.

Meaning you HAVE to shift at 4500 RPM, NO later.

The B16 will win after a quarter mile...maybe a few cars.....maybe?

I'm not ******* the B16 at all, it's a great motor, though it's more "race" tuned than "daily driven" tuned. Honda tried (and did pretty good) to FIX this problem, what they did was they paired it with the shortest stock trans H/A ever created (the ITR). That's the only reason it can do what it can do, it's got a very short transmission. The "160 HP" doesn't mean dick until 4-4.5-5 or so.

Think of it as a D16 w/ super VTEC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Under VTEC engagement the difference is low. Obviously that changes after 4-5k or so.

Not the best for a daily driver unless you daily wind out to 5k every start in every gear - but whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

As far as the brakes go, Honda drums are MADDDD EASY. Like the drums on my Tercel for example are a pain in the ***, you gotta unscrew the spindle bolt, then there's an outer wheel bearing, and an inner wheel bearing, and there's laces, and some other crap piece, on top of the basic shoes/drum.

Honda drums are simple, just the shoes and the drum.

Will you notice much of a difference in disks from drums? No. The only difference you'll notice is they're not so quick to lock up in emergency stopping situations (drums lock faster). I wouldn't recommend a rear disk swap to anybody unless you got EXTRA, FREE, money (as in you're just LOOKING to buy something).

Iono why you're calling him retarded, he's smarter than you.

In a RACING situations, they're A SHITLOAD BETTER. The difference is NULL if you're not raping that motor into the upper RPM band. 0-4k or so you WON'T notice a difference between the motors, it'll feel just like your Y7 or a Y8. It's when VTEC engages and you really wind it up there that it makes its power.

So if you like to wind it up to 6k to shift outta 1st - go for it, you'll love it.

People just don't get it.
HP = Torque x RPM / 5250.

Eliminate 5250 - SIMPLIFIED, HP = Torque X RPM

The B16 has about the same torque as a D16 0-4k and not too much more afterwards. It gets VERY nice HP numbers because of it's peak RPM and VTEC lobes. It makes all usable "race" power in VTEC, like most Honda motors, this is because the sub-standard displacement of 1.6L and 1.8L motors.

Remember, in comes down to one simple thing with the B16.

It makes its power by winding out, and before 4 grand, it's got nothing, absolutely nothing.

The only difference is these retards reading spec sheets.

"106 to 160/170? Not a big difference??"

Yes, at the dyno it will score that (not even at the dyno, it'll nail like 140-150 at the dyno), in DAILY DRIVEN 700-4,500 RPM - it won't matter worth of dick opposed to your SOHC. The only thing that makes it better in daily driving (700-4,500 RPM) is that the trans is so ridiculously short that you still accel better regardless of the moot difference in HP early in its RPM band.</TD></TR></TABLE>

all that for nothing?

So how would you notice the difference between an K20 and a D series if you drive it like gramma?

You cant or you dont care. The difference is felt when your foot hits the floor.

The difference between a d16 and b16 is huge when your foot hits the floor. That's why you swap motors. You dont swap motors to never floor it. If your car was PURELY a grocery getter....why swap out of the D series in the first place?

Your post was long and pointless.

 

Get the brake booster and master cylinder from a '98+ Integra or '97+ ITR for better braking. The above listed model years don't require you to cut and reflare one of the brake lines to use a '94-'01, non-RS Integra master cylinder. On '94 to '97 Integra's, one inverted flare nut was 10mm and one was 8mm. On the newer models, both nuts are 8mm.

You'll need a bench bleeder kit from Napa and flare nut/line wrenches.

When we converted a '92 DX from drum to disc brakes, we had a hell of a time with removing the rear trailing arm bolts and then with getting the new parking brake lines situated with the e-brake lever. I retapped the holes for the rear trailing arm bushing bolts and got new bolts. The toe arm bolts were a little fussy too, so we got new bolts for those too. I paid $125 for that pair with trailing arms, toe arms, upper control arms, calipers, pads, and rotors. We replaced the rotors, pads, and rear upper control arms. Total cost was about $200, but more if you count that the rear upper control arms I donated were '98-spec JDM ITR rear upper control arms.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

all that for nothing?

So how would you notice the difference between an K20 and a D series if you drive it like gramma?

You cant or you dont care. The difference is felt when your foot hits the floor.

The difference between a d16 and b16 is huge when your foot hits the floor. That's why you swap motors. You dont swap motors to never floor it. If your car was PURELY a grocery getter....why swap out of the D series in the first place?

Your post was long and pointless. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you 100%.

The difference is HUGE when your foot hits the floor...but that's all it's huge at. At typical daily driven RPM, it's not much different. I understand the point of having more power when you floor it, but how often do you floor it? If you floor it and bring it to the redline more times than you shift under 4 or 5k, the engine won't last long - simple as that.

You will NOT find a guy who redlines it from a stop light daily with 200k miles on the car - just won't happen.

I'm not saying you have to drive like a Grand Ma. I love the B16 for when you gotta drop gears to roast somebody, though in actual "more power" in your "daily drive" I'm not too fond of it. An LS puts down almost as much torque as a GSR. That's a better "daily driver" motor.

Obviously the op doesn't care about daily driver power, he just wants to be able to race the guy next to him - which is fine. Though I just want him to be aware that under 4-5k (daily driving) there won't be much of a difference.

From the sound of things though, he is aware. That's why he said "not much of an improvement" - so obviously he's aware that it's not going to make a difference unless he's "racing." So now that I'm sure he realizes that, my point is made.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I agree with you 100%.

The difference is HUGE when your foot hits the floor...but that's all it's huge at. At typical daily driven RPM, it's not much different. I understand the point of having more power when you floor it, but how often do you floor it? If you floor it and bring it to the redline more times than you shift under 4 or 5k, the engine won't last long - simple as that.

You will NOT find a guy who redlines it from a stop light daily with 200k miles on the car - just won't happen.

I'm not saying you have to drive like a Grand Ma. I love the B16 for when you gotta drop gears to roast somebody, though in actual "more power" in your "daily drive" I'm not too fond of it. An LS puts down almost as much torque as a GSR. That's a better "daily driver" motor.

Obviously the op doesn't care about daily driver power, he just wants to be able to race the guy next to him - which is fine. Though I just want him to be aware that under 4-5k (daily driving) there won't be much of a difference.

From the sound of things though, he is aware. That's why he said "not much of an improvement" - so obviously he's aware that it's not going to make a difference unless he's "racing." So now that I'm sure he realizes that, my point is made.


</TD></TR></TABLE>

no...there's still a ton of difference. Dyno runs are done in a 1:1 gear. Torque is the same in that situation. HOWEVER!! Since pretty much all the gears in a B16 are lower, torque is magnified. You should know this since you seem to be a man of science.

The D16Y7 feels MUCH more anemic because of the gearing than a B16. Regardless of engine speed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

no...there's still a ton of difference. Dyno runs are done in a 1:1 gear. Torque is the same in that situation. HOWEVER!! Since pretty much all the gears in a B16 are lower, torque is magnified. You should know this since you seem to be a man of science.

The D16Y7 feels MUCH more anemic because of the gearing than a B16. Regardless of engine speed. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You can never hit 1:1 gear - you make the best attempt - that's it.

Though yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, the B16 feels more "ballsy" because of the trans - but during daily driving, there's really no difference. Though I agree, when dropping gears to wreck somebody - it's an incredibly huge difference.

EDIT:
PS: Maybe I'm biased b/c there's hills in my area and certain hills a GSR or h22 can pull up in 4th, a B16 still requires 3rd like a D16.

 

I know were OFF TOPIC BUT:

Damn you!

Now I'm questioning my decision on my swap!

My car, for arguement purposes, is a dialy driver, I'm young, idiotic, and like to go fast.

Weekdays, normally only driving in morning / afternoon rush hours.

Nigts / weekends, I drive ***** to the wall, stupid crazy ****. Always launching at lights, and *ALWAYS* looking for some other idiotic rice boy on the high ways.

I mean just last night, driving up 71 north, just chillin in the hammer lane bout 85, kid pulls up right next to me and just rides there for a good mile or two, hes in his daddys brand new dodge charger :D I look over at him, drop into 4th, then 3rd knowing I have NO chance at all, and just hammer it, he flys by like I'm not even moving

I frequently rev 5-6k, my tranny is shot, syncros are bad, gears are grinding, and I have 115k miles on a clutch that is SHOT.

And your telling my my engine isn't going to last long with rev's that high &gt;&lt; and that the disk swap is useless

I now have to RE THINK my entire plans for this car, its oblivious that I haven't researched enough on these types of thing, and or just re-think my driving style.

I chose the b16 becasue there wasn't much difference until the vtec kicks in, but if I'm frequently reving that high JUST to get that power = not good?

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;How long is this trial account BS going to last @_@

 

tq&gt;hp

d series 106 @ 5200
b16 116 @ 7300 rpm


is it really worth the money????

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sXekid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">tq&gt;hp

d series 106 @ 5200
b16 116 @ 7300 rpm


is it really worth the money????


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I can never say it enough.

Horsepower sells cars/engines
Torque wins motor races.

We test drove a few b16 civics before we bought my brothers gsr.

The b16's were fun, but not until ~4k or so. They really had absolutely nothing until then. It makes the engine very exciting, it has a wakeup like no other motor I've driven.

Though in actuality numbers being put down aren't much more impressive than a cammed d16.

 

I dunno if I had a freak motor or what but my B16 used to smoke GSR's, LS's and hang with Type R's. My I/E SiR-II B16A in my 98 DX Coupe ran a 14.9

 

^^

Gearing makes a lot of that.

Not to mention driver skill plays a huge factor.

 

there is a HUGE difference when you stomp the gas. as for the brakes, that long and pointless post is long and pointless. i swapped to rear disc on my 90 crx and used the 1" master cylinder and larger booster from the integra. i could now do 50 and wait extreamly late to brake before a stop sign, and still have like 20ft of room. it is WAY worth it for the swap. do both swaps, ignore mr. long and pointless, and have fun with vtec in your sol. wait till you go turbo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsxr1k05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i could now do 50 and wait extreamly late to brake before a stop sign, and still have like 20ft of room. </TD></TR></TABLE>You always lock 'em up like when everybody parks in F&F? Stupid.

And you said to ignore the long post from Syndacate. He has very valid points and you're failing to recognize them. Honda drums are simple. Even if you've never done them before, all you need is a few simple tools and to keep your springs in order.
Don't get me wrong. I love my rear disc swap. But it felt mushy and I don't think the potential was realized until I swapped the MC and Prop. Valve. After that, I felt it stopped much better. But, the additional stopping power didn't come mostly from the pads as opposed to shoes. It came from the additional hydraulic pressure going to the calipers. Drums are more than enough for his daily driver. It looks cool to have disc, but it's a little overkill.

To the creator- if you can find a brake swap for cheap, I'd say go for it. But if you'd like to save some money and make your B16 () a little more fun with cash towards a set of cams or something, just upgrade your pads and rotors in front. You'll stop plenty hard even with a new engine.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatchling37 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You always lock 'em up like when everybody parks in F&F? Stupid.

And you said to ignore the long post from Syndacate. He has very valid points and you're failing to recognize them. Honda drums are simple. Even if you've never done them before, all you need is a few simple tools and to keep your springs in order.
Don't get me wrong. I love my rear disc swap. But it felt mushy and I don't think the potential was realized until I swapped the MC and Prop. Valve. After that, I felt it stopped much better. But, the additional stopping power didn't come mostly from the pads as opposed to shoes. It came from the additional hydraulic pressure going to the calipers. Drums are more than enough for his daily driver. It looks cool to have disc, but it's a little overkill.

To the creator- if you can find a brake swap for cheap, I'd say go for it. But if you'd like to save some money and make your B16 () a little more fun with cash towards a set of cams or something, just upgrade your pads and rotors in front. You'll stop plenty hard even with a new engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i admit that it was my fault that i did not read through all of syndicates post. flame me for that if you will. however, i dont lock my brakes up. and i agree with you hatchling about the hydraulics making the braking firmer. you are right about that. it is from the larger bore m/c and more vaccum from the booster.

so syndicate, i appologise for making claims without reading througly

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsxr1k05 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i admit that it was my fault that i did not read through all of syndicates post. flame me for that if you will. however, i dont lock my brakes up. and i agree with you hatchling about the hydraulics making the braking firmer. you are right about that. it is from the larger bore m/c and more vaccum from the booster.

so syndicate, i appologise for making claims without reading througly</TD></TR></TABLE>

LoL - Don't worry about it.

I just had two simple points to make:

A) If you want a motor that's gonna help you around town AND be powerful you might wanna look into something such as the LS/VTEC, B20/VTEC, H22, F20B, etc. - which are all comparable (or more) in power to the B16, but cost less/the same. If you go with an LS/VTEC, you may not make 150whp like the B16...but you'll have a ****-ton more torque off the line - meaning with a B16 trans it'll rape until the last 3000 RPM of the B16 - which won't make a difference. Also, since it's got torque up the ***, driving around town is better too - you don't need to wind it out just to "pull away" from a stop light.

B) The brakes: Disks are easier to change the pads on, and when you drive up they say "yo, I'm here, bling bling" - - They also don't lock up as easy.

Other than that, there's really no difference, I'm pretty sure the surface area of a shoe pad is GREATER than that of the caliper brake pads - meaning the drums technically have more stopping power...but whatever, they're pretty close, it boils down to 2 bad things about drums:
1) It takes maybe 10-30 minutes to change a shoe and drum opposed to the 5-10 minutes it may take to change brake-pads. 2) A drum will lock up with less pressure than disks take to lockup.

So I'll revert back to my previous post:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't recommend a rear disk swap to anybody unless you got EXTRA, FREE, money (as in you're just LOOKING to buy something).</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you have the extra money, that you wanna spend, SPEND IT ON DISKS! Though I wouldn't recommend you save $ just to pay for disks.

You only need three tools to do a drum job - needle nose pliers (to pull the springs around the holes and shoe clips), a hammer (to knock the drum loose so it slids out), and a flathead screwdriver (to spin the adjuster wheel and pull the shoes back a little).

Once you rip a drum apart you realize it's not as hard as everybody makes it out to be - well at least not on a Honda.

On my Tercel it's a diff ball game - it's you gotta remove the spindle nut, then there's an inner & outter wheel bearing (and I guess one of them has to come off), and that inner ring - and the laces - and all this other bullshit - I had a mechy friend do it - I wasn't gonna attempt at all that ****.

Honda drums are easy, pull it apart, you'll get it back together.

 

EXPENSIVE but if you have hook ups then its all cool

 

Thanks for the input guys, as I said above, it looks like I've got alot more reading to do before I start swaping things out.

Got a wad of cash beggin' to be spent and I just dove head first into somethin' I took VERY little time to go over.

I'm just going to scrap all the plans I had for it, and start over. Aside from the body work, and basic matinance.

EDIT:

How much longer and I'm going to have to be a ******' trial member? For ***** sake @_@

 

well i have a 93 del sol si i that i will be partting out soon. and the rear suspention is up fro grabs