I'm redoing my suspension and am in the market for the spss3 valved struts for my da but recently found out they don't make them for the 90-93 integras. I could go with 91 civic struts in front(spss3) and 94-00 integra struts(spss3) in the rear. My only concern is that the struts coming off of a 91 civic and 94-00 integra are the same in length as the 90-93 struts. Can someone help me out?

 

I am just going through this same thing...

I picked up some used EF koni yellows. Sent them to ProParts West to have them rebuilt to the race spec for my car... Unfortunately they got confused and didn't make them into RACE shocks for a DA, they made them too short. So I've been in contact with Gordon from Koni NA and he filled me in on all the details.

Excerpts from my emails with Gordon:


Stock shock lengths, fully extended and fully compressed:
MAX MIN
90-93 Integra
8041-1200 Sport (F) 474 368
8041-1201 Sport (R) 516 371

89-91 Civic
8041-1166 SP4 (F) 395 297
8041-1153 Sport (R) 486 343

94-01 Integra
8041-1152 Sport (F) 433 308
8041-1153 Sport (R) 486 343

My Rebuilt and Shortened EF RACE Shocks
8041-1166 RACE (F) 345 275
8041-1153 RACE (R) 428 321


"For the 90-93, we typically shorten the fronts 50mm and the rears 20mm. Or, if starting from scratch, we use an 8041-1152Sport shock and revalve it but not shorten it. It will require the larger diameter fork from this car though to fit."


"1) When we say shorten, we mean taking the length out of the body of the shock. This will also result in having to shorten the rod the same amount at the same time (in which case max length goes down by twice that amount).

2) The measurements are from the bottom of the body to the shoulder where the first washer sits on the upper mount of the shock for the front and from the center of the “eye” of the lower bracket to the shoulder where the first washer sits on the upper mount for the back."


"You should be able to get away with the 89-91 shocks but I would recommend having some rebound stop removed from them to get the max length back up to the 92-00 spec. The 10mm difference on min length isn’t huge especially if you’re running the car low.

As for ride height to shock length, they’re mostly independent of each other. The problem with having a shock that is too short on the car is that you end up running very high on the piston rod which makes it weaker in side loading (or spring bowing in your case). It’s just a good idea not to. To put it another way, having an inch of stroke left on the shock while the chassis is scrapping the ground isn’t useful."

------------------------------


Hopefully that info helps you out some. I know it helped me out a lot. My current plan is to trade my shocks, which are too short for me, for ots EF yellows + cash. Then send the EF yellows out to be rebuilt, but NOT shortened. And I'll also have some of the droop limiter taken out as well per Gordon's advice.

BTW, the shocks which are to short for me were just barely too short, set at max ride height (700lb/600lb) with no preload the ride height would be OK for race only use, but there wouldn't be any adjustment upwards. So now with the revalved EF's I'll gain an extra 50mm of ride height, which should be plenty (almost 2") in front.

 

Wow. They rebuilt your fronts to 345 full extended?? holy craaap.

Hey, by any chance could I get Gordons e-mail address so I can address some of the questions I have?

Thanks a lot btw for the great information, pretty much summed it ALLL up for me in one post.


Modified by theBRIANjonestownMASSACRE at 11:35 PM 8/7/2007

 

Thanks for those measurements but one thing im not sure of is where the measurements are taken from.
Top of the washer does that mean the washer would hit the shock when compressed fully?

Also would you have the race measurements.

I just bought some ef civic koni yellow duall adjust shocks when and if(ebay) i recieve them i can install them and provide pics measurents before you guys buy a set.

I also emailed Gordon about some questions i had....what can i say absolutely amazing customer service and knowledge...i will always buy and use koni.



Part no. if anyone knows what they mean let me know.

8041-1166 SP1 x2 - Front 25mm shortened bod
8041-1153 SP1 x2 - Rear 16mm shortened body.





Modified by TEGNO1 at 7:44 PM 8/8/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does that mean the washer would hit the shock when compressed fully?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you don't have bump stops, then yes you can make that happen.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ef civic koni yellow duall adjust shocks</TD></TR></TABLE>

? Which ones? Sport? sp3?

 

Your too quick for me you posted before i could put the pics and info in.

If thats true that would make the front shock body around 300mm long that would be too long i think.
The optimum length would be around 240mm - 280mm depending on shaft length ride height, bump stop length, top hat design, ride height, droop needed etc etc.
The DC race ones would be better depending on shaft length.

Ill show you what i mean when i get them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The DC race ones would be better depending on shaft length.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So your saying for the front, the dc race strutswoudl be better than the ef race struts on a da. To make that work I'll just need the dc forks. IF the body is shorter then that would be the way to go ASLONG as the length of the shaft is to spec. To me it seems like the ef struts woudl be shorter than a dc struts.

 

Maybe shock body length but there are other things i dont know about like the amount of droop limiter in them and shaft length.

If someone could post the open and close lengths of the race ones as well you could determine if there is enough length in them.

All i can do is let you know the length and type i used and how much travell droop etc etc i have then you can compare to the other lengths and find which ones suit you.

 

I'll throw Gordon an e-mail about those lengths.

 

sorry for the slow response, I have been out of town. Re-read my email, there is an exact quote from an email Gordon sent me in regard to where the measurements are taken (as I asked him that same question). Here is that quote again:

"2) The measurements are from the bottom of the body to the shoulder where the first washer sits on the upper mount of the shock for the front and from the center of the “eye” of the lower bracket to the shoulder where the first washer sits on the upper mount for the back."

 

I got my shocks and took some measurements

Top of washer to bottom of body.

Front: open...382mm Closed....272mm.
Rear: open....465mm Closed....345mm.

A couple of things the washer does not hit but stops because of the hump.
The groove location where the front lower shock bolt goes can have an impact on length by having it lower or higher.






Also since im using the top hat in the pic which allows the spring to keep straight it acts like a spacer allowing me to use shorter shocks. It allows the top washer to stop further down where a thinner top hat will let the washer travell up higher.
If you had a top hat like the blue one the top washer will go higher....
Standard type top hat will be different again.



On the front im going to go with 335mm from the centre around 2 finger gap
You want to go tucked which is probably around 300mm from centre.
Tuckage

2 finger gap


I checked and the control arm hits at around 285mm from the centre...
that means at 300mm you only have 15mm of tyre movement before your control arm hits and at least at 335mm you have 50mm.
That means 10mm of shock travell at 300mm and 30mm at 335mm(motion ratio)
That would be a waste of shock cause you might as well have a solid rod there.

The shocks are perfect for me because i can space them out with the top spring mount...otherwise i would recomend more extension for the rear.
The front are a good length
The rear at 335mm i only had 35mm of extension left with blue top hat....too short but 60mm extension left at 300mm.
But i added the other top hat which gave me the 25mm extra length i needed.
300mm rear travell left

335mm travell left


With thinner top hat
300mm from centre rear

335mm from centre rear


I would say front good but rear another inch is needed.

 

Actually go for measurements around
Front 270mm-400mm

Rear 345mm-500mm

Depending on droop needed top hat used bump stop length, ride height range wanted etc etc.
Hope i didnt confuse you too much.

 

Those look like they'll work well w/ the blue top-hat.

After reading it acouple times, I think I'm catching on. GC top-hats would eliminate any shock travel issues. But the UCA hitting the tower, that's un-avoidable unless I start cutting holes. I've come to the conclusion of buying the EF SP3's for my DA front and back, w/ GC top-hats, helper springs and stiff rates of 500front and 400rear. The short EF struts should help me attain the ride height I'm looking for, the Top-hats will help with strut travel, and the SP3 20mm shorter shaft will keep me from bottoming out, the stiff rates should keep me firm on the ground and the helper springs should keep the spring in place w/ preload at all times. Helper spring's add about an inch when fully compressed so I'm takign that into consideration and getting the 6" eibach springs for a total of 7" of spring tucking tire. I &lt;3 Research.

 

I wouldnt buy the ef race ones without getting the open and closed lengths see if you can post the race series shocks lengths.
The reason the ef race ones might not work is the shaft length will be too short.
Mine have 110mm front and 120mm rear totall travell which is chrome shaft length...Colins had alot less thats why they didnt work.
For springs im having issues with coilbind you wont cause you only have 10mm of shock travell but it will be a problem if you want to raise the car.
Im probable gonna go 8" springs + helpers but put the sleeve right down the bottom of the shocks body.
Definately dont get the GC top hats that give you extra travel get a standard flat type one.
The reason mine work is the top hats im using otherwise the rears are too short.
If you want to go low Go for something like my lengths but i recommend more on the rear.
If you wanna go low go for something like 650-750lbs spring rate.
Get those other lengths if you can.

 

So you decided to go with the spss valved Koni's aka race shocks or did you decide to with the sp3 shocks?

Originally you stated that you wanted the spss valving and the sp3 shocks do not feature the race valving. I made that mistake when I originally bought my race shocks for my EF.

The sp3 shocks are stock Koni yellows that have two extra spring perch clips machined in and an extra 20mm droop limiter internally. They are made by Nuespeed with Koni and are really made for using regular drop springs and the extra machined grooves give just that extra little bit of height adjustment plus it keeps the spring from separating from the top hat.

If you do decide to go with EF Race shocks, then I highly suggest that you do like Colin says and buy OTS yellows and just revalve them but don't get them shortened. Or go the other route and get the dc Integra shocks in the front and run the bigger forks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think your toe-nails need cut

 

Dammit i was hoping no one would notice better do something before i hurt someone....he he

I would not go for standard DC/EG front as shock body is too long my opinion.
Mine 272mm closed DC/EG 308mm closed

The DC/EG race ones are shortened by 25mm which would make them 283mm closed....perfect i think.....but ITS THE OPEN LENGTH THATS IMPORTANT TOO... if the open length of the DC/EG race ones is 380mm or more they would be the perfect choice.

The fronts on a DA 368mm with only 106mm shock travell wow the only the only reason that i can come up with there is the DA sits alot higher standard than a DC/EG (my guess).

The rear is more difficult as
Mine 345mm open 465 closed
1153 343mm 486
DC/EG race 328mm unknown
I think the DC/EG race would be too short but the 1153 would work with a 60mm bumpstop because they have 21mm more extension.(longer bumpstop same as longer shock).
Making the DC/EG rear race ones work would be dependant on the open length.

Also OTS EF civic would be good just buy and drive then when you have cash revalve and shorten the front body or put new bolt groove higher by 15mm leave extension alone and run 20mm front bumpstop and 60mm rear.


Modified by TEGNO1 at 11:22 PM 8/14/2007

 

So far this is what I've decided on:

EF SP3's on all for corners. For my 90-93 integra.
OTS length of EF, but 20mm shorter travel. EF OTS are shorter than DA OTS so that should be the low-rider like ride height.

Top-hats.

500lb front and 400lb rear.

No more Helpers/Couplers for now. Not unless I NEED them.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">650-750lbs spring rate.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you really suggest a spring rate that stiff for the streets and highways of LA?
Do you mean 650lb front and 750lb rear? Sorry I don't exactly understand the terms used.


EDIT: If I where to run the spss3s(which would have been too short anyway) I wouldn't ahve run the top-hats. I understand what your saying, that's just going to add to the fact that the struts are already cutting it way to close to even drive it(spss3 ef/eg/dc's on a da).




Modified by theBRIANjonestownMASSACRE at 11:55 PM 8/14/2007

 

Yeah i reckon OTS EF with 15mm shorter body or lower shock by 15mm in the fork with new bolt groove and 20mm bumpstop front.

Rear OTS EF with 60mm bumstop.

Spring rate was 650lb front 750lb rear just so you dont bottom out as much... but thats a guess from me... its your choice.

If you go 500/400 you dont need the race shocks and you might not need the helpers on the front because the springs will compress around 60+ mm at static ride height so if you have 60mm or less of droop remaining the front spring will not unseat.
Sorry about the confusion but im not very good at explaining in writting.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TEGNO1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sorry about the confusion but im not very good at explaining in writting.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's quite alright, this is getting very interesting anyway.

I didnt' know you could get an OTS EF with a 15mm shorter body or lower shock by 12mm in the fork wih a new bolt groove...

650lb front on each corner would be a total of 1300lb springs in the front. That's a lot I think. And--in combination--the 750lb rears would be ideal for curing factory understeer in a FWD car but would be too much for a gutted rear that weighs nothing and is my grocery getter. I'd be flying around in my car and possibly bending suspension components, my bottled soda's would explode after a ride in the summer heat with the constant attacks of uneven pavement. When it comes to LA streets, I've learned that I have to take things like that into consideration. My .02. lol. But I'm just guessing as well when it comes to springs rates anyway. I've only ridden OTS ERS rates.

BTW: I edited the above post before your last. ^^


Modified by theBRIANjonestownMASSACRE at 11:58 PM 8/14/2007

 

You cant get the shock with the new groove you have to get that done dont worry for now.

The ones Colin posted get these.
89-91 Civic
8041-1166 SP4 (F) 395 297
8041-1153 Sport (R) 486 343

Now if you compare to mine you can see the difference...
8041-1166 SP3 (F) 382 272
8041-1153 SP3 (R) 465 345

You can see that mine are the nuespeed ones with extra circlips and modded for bump adj.
You can also see that they extend by 10mm less front and 20mm rear and the front body is shortened by 25mm, rear bodys not shortenned as seller stated.

Like i said before the DC/EG race would work on the front depending on the open lengths.
But the 89-91 civic are a direct bolt on with nothing needed for now.
You can get them with GC kit and see how you go.
If you ride ride low you will be either riding on bumstops(even with shorter shocks) or banging control arms so the ride will be worse than stiff springs.
Remember 15mm tyre movenent 10mm shock movementnt and thats not including adding a bumpstop.

Before you buy confirm the lengths and part no. though.

 

He can get the shocks with the extra grooves in them if he wishes... they are the exact same thing as OTS Koni's just with two extra grooves machined in and an extra 20mm droop limiter installed. I think they would work fine if he's going with ots valved units, however the body length is the same as with the rod inside, it just has a spacer internally so the rod can not come up as far to help discourage spring and perch seperation.

If you are using EF Koni's on a DA then you do not need the TopHats. The EF shocks are plenty short to begin with and if you add the top hat it actually does lower the amount that your car can be raised. I think you would be just fine just cutting your bump stops down shorter.

On Colins car the EF race units he has as high as he can go and it's still too low.

On my crx I have the race Koni's and I originally tried to install them with g/c top hats mounted and I could not get the car high enough to get out of my driveway, and once I scraped my way out the tire was fully tucked and about 3/8th inch from tucking rim in the front.

The difference between a EF Race shock on a crx and a ots EF shock on a Da would set them about the same ride height abd travel. So with a top hat the would make the car sit too low being that top hats are made to "give back" some of the travel you loose when running a stock sized shock on a highly lowered car, but in this case the upper mount on the da sits about an inch and a half higher than on a ef so there is no need for a top hat.

 

Good to know. I never thought of it that way. So Top-Hats are out of the equation as well as the helpers and couplers saving me over $500.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by import2nr88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He can get the shocks with the extra grooves in them if he wishes... they are the exact same thing as OTS Koni's just with two extra grooves machined in and an extra 20mm droop limiter installed. I think they would work fine if he's going with ots valved units, however the body length is the same as with the rod inside, it just has a spacer internally so the rod can not come up as far to help discourage spring and perch seperation.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you elaborate on this alittle? Are we talking about SP3s?

The extra 20mm droop limiter sounds like a good idea if it's going to discourage spring and perch seperation but it's probably going to take away from the length I can raise my car if I want to raise it high, correct? -- Raising my car probably isn't possible with these EF struts all around. Let's say, enough to get some slicks under it. Which isn't a real problem but just something that crossed my mind and thought I would put it out there.

----------------------------

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ones Colin posted get these.
89-91 Civic
8041-1166 SP4 (F) 395 297
8041-1153 Sport (R) 486 343</TD></TR></TABLE>

The sport version and not the SP3?
There is one thing that confuses me with the labeling of SP4 on the Front strut. They also appear to be shorter than normal. You know anything about that?



Modified by theBRIANjonestownMASSACRE at 1:22 PM 8/15/2007

 

The droop limiter is just that, it limits droop only (so shortens fully extended length but fully compressed length remains the same). So as you mentioned it will basically just help prevent the suspension drooping too much and having the spring be loose (like we were talking about over PM's). A droop limiter would be very good for your situation.

20mm is less than an inch, so as long as you know you never want to go any higher than 1" lower than stock... you're fine.

In regard to the various circlip grooves. If I remember correctly the stock Koni's come with 3 grooves, one is slightly lower than the stock location, one slightly higher. I think the SP3 yellows have 5 grooves, although I'm not sure how much lower or higher these grooves are than the OTS yellows.