Hey guys,

over the past couple weeks, we have had a massive influx of inquiries into our transmission products and whether or not we are going to be offering something for you B-Series Turbo guys out there.

from what we have gathered so far from your comments, it would seem that:

1) You guys keep breaking your oem gears, so need something stronger

and

2) Most of you don't want to have to spend several grand in order to achieve the above

Now, we realize that the use of oem gears is a rather gray area. Some of you guys have had good experience with oem gears, whereas some of you guys have experienced catastrophic failures. Be it down to the driving style or the type of clutch used, one thing is for certain, and that is most of you will benefit from upgrading your gears.

Keeping these points in mind, we are proud to announce that, in order to further show our support for the Sport Compact Racing industry, MFactory Competition Products will take up the challenge of bringing to you guys an affordable, high-strength gear-set specifically geared for the turbo drag racer

In order to keep costs and lead times down though, we will be offering an "off-the-shelf" solution, not the custom ratio's that some of our competitors are offering, hence the reason for this post. In order for us to help you, we need your feedback What we have so far is:

Material: All gears will be forged from fully carburized military-grade high-nickel-chromoly-steel

Final Drive (Ring & Pinion): Current feedback suggests our current 4.05 ratio is adequate

1st Gear: We currently have our 3.070 1st gear available, and preliminary tests show that these work extremely well in reducing your 60ft times

2nd/3rd/4th: The problem gears Most of the feedback we've had from you guys is to go with the GSR ratios (1.9, 1.36, 1.034)

5th: Some of you guys asked for a cuff, some say there is no need?

For those wondering, this will still be a synchro, NOT a dog-box.

Cost: Based on the above so far, this would give an estimate MSRP at circa $1k->2k

As mentioned, help us to help you, so keep the suggestions coming


Modified by MFactory at 7:52 PM 11/25/2007

 

WOW!!! Thats an awesome price I'm sure you'll get tons of feed back with that cost.

Plus i think you'll have alot more people experimenting with different ratios with that cost.

 

Sorry, forgot to mention that this will initially be for the B-Series guys, although if you are K, your feedback is still appreciated as you guys will be next

 

So $1k+ leaves alot of room. Is it $1k-$1.5k or $1k to $5k? The + is very vague.

 

$1k+ = $1->2k


Modified by MFactory at 7:53 PM 11/25/2007

 

i think this is a great idea. affordable gears that will be able to hold up. i think it would be a great idea for mfactory to step up and take action to the weak link in our s/fwd cars.

 

pm'd

 

Let me get this straight,you are going to use the semi helical ring and pinion as well as the 1st and 2nd,BUT use the 3rd and 4rth straight cut.
Would there be a rotating issue under load? Last year we were using the G force dog gear set with the Circuit werks ring and pinion and were having issues with shaft bearings breaking in the tranny due to the conflict of the straight gears versus the helical ring and pinion uder load.(This year gforce made the new ring & pinion so its fine.)

Also using the stock gearing of a gsr tranny with the 4.05 final is a bit much. By my calculations at 10,000 rpms using a 25in tire leaves you a top speed in 4th of almost 178mph with that gearing.You dont want the rpms to drop to low in the powerband in between shifts,it will cause bogging.
If the 4.0 is going to be utilized i say make a custom 3rd and 4rth,maybe a little shorter.

just my.02

 

screw b-series.

get some d-series factory gearing or close and id be very interested.

 

I agree, a 4.0 final with GSR gears is not a good combination. In my opinion anyways.

 

For those who have asked, we have always recommended to use semi-helical rather than straight-cut. Unfortunately, from the enquiries we've been getting, it would seem that "straight-cut" is the thing that everyone desires (however misinformed they may be), hence why I asked the question above

Regarding the ratio for 3rd/4th, yes, we also believe that a shorter 3/4 may be required. This is what we need to judge from the feedback received from you guys. We need to know what you are running so that we can have an "optimal" ratio that will suit the majority of you

 

In for more info

 

Okay guys, this is what we have so far:

FD: 4.05
1st: 3.070
2nd: 1.900
3rd: 1.450
4th: 1.100
5th: OEM. No Cuff

Based on 25" @ 10k rpm:

1st: 60mph
2nd: 97mph (from 6200rpm)
3rd: 127mph (from 7700rpm)
4th:167mph (from 7600rpm)

Sound ok, or still off?

 

Well, if straight cut gears won't work right with a helical ring and pinion, then don't offer it. You guys are the gear makers, you have to decide what will work and what won't. If people want straight cut, but it won't work, then explain why it won't work and don't offer it. If you offer a product that breaks, it's only going to make you look bad.

 

Yes, you are correct. I will edit the initial post, thanks

 

I would say using the stock 1st and 2nd a 1.43 3rd and a 1.1 4th would be sick.
On a 25 in tire at 10000 rpms:
1 st 60mph - rpm drop 1st to 2nd to 6200
2nd 97mph - rpm drop 2nd to 3rd to 7500
3d 129mph - rpm drop 3rd to 4th to 7690
4th 168 mph-

Even on a 24.5 raise the rev limit to 10,300 and it has the same drop points as well as mph.

 

Yup, sound close enough to my calculations as well

Remember, this is for YOU GUYS (and gals ), so keep the feedback/suggestions coming

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Semi-Helical VS Straight-Cut: Contrary to what a lot of you guys may have heard, straight-cut is NOT stronger than semi-helical (and the only reason why you may have heard this is because it was a comparison between aftermarket sc vs stock helical, so of course it will be stronger). With semi-helical, the gear teeth will be in contact at all times and is progressive, thus spreading the load throughout. This results in far better reliability. For those wondering, this will still be a synchro, NOT a dog-box.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not a gear expert by any means, so don't take this the wrong way, i'm all about learning new stuff. But when i look at the successful aftermarket parts, 95% of what i see is straight cut. Xtrac, Liberty's, G Force, Hollinger, etc. Why do they use straight cut over helical if helical is stronger?

 

if you can make helical beefier like straight cut then it would be better.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aggressive Racing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would say using the stock 1st and 2nd a 1.43 3rd and a 1.1 4th would be sick.
On a 25 in tire at 10000 rpms:
1 st 60mph - rpm drop 1st to 2nd to 6200
2nd 97mph - rpm drop 2nd to 3rd to 7500
3d 129mph - rpm drop 3rd to 4th to 7690
4th 168 mph-

Even on a 24.5 raise the rev limit to 10,300 and it has the same drop points as well as mph. </TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MFactory &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay guys, this is what we have so far:

FD: 4.05
1st: 3.070
2nd: 1.900
3rd: 1.450
4th: 1.100
5th: OEM. No Cuff

Based on 25" @ 10k rpm:

1st: 60mph
2nd: 97mph (from 6200rpm)
3rd: 127mph (from 7700rpm)
4th:167mph (from 7600rpm)

Sound ok, or still off?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think those ratios fall about where most of the competitive SFWD/T4 cars are running. And I understand the want to keep using your 4.05 final drive.

Does anyone have any feedback on your current final drive products? Same material as what we are talking about for the gears? I am looking for highpower/trq setups, not all motor cars going 10s. For this to work = testing, product feedback, proof and support. "Military" grade isn't going to work for me since I am an engineer for the government/military and I see personally what crap comes out of there.

 

I got the same question, don't forget hewland, enco and I beleive there's a few others

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not a gear expert by any means, so don't take this the wrong way, i'm all about learning new stuff. But when i look at the successful aftermarket parts, 95% of what i see is straight cut. Xtrac, Liberty's, G Force, Hollinger, etc. Why do they use straight cut over helical if helical is stronger?</TD></TR></TABLE>

What's your info based on the moon and the stars aligning? It's better because I like ketchup more then mustard

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike93eh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you can make hlical beefier like straight cut then it would be better.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not a gear expert by any means, so don't take this the wrong way, i'm all about learning new stuff. But when i look at the successful aftermarket parts, 95% of what i see is straight cut. Xtrac, Liberty's, G Force, Hollinger, etc. Why do they use straight cut over helical if helical is stronger?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The material itself may not be stronger, but the contact patch/direction of force is where the increased resistance to failure is to be found in the helical gear. Depending on the Helix angle, you can have two to three teeth in contact at once.

Straight cut gears are cheaper to make. Some of this costs I think is soaked up in being able to machine the gears out of certain materials and the ability to do so for helical gears may just cost too much.

Also, efficiency (output power/input power) of the two type of gears, I think the gears are straight cut to get the most efficiency out of them. The helical gears are less efficient due to the sliding friction along the helix angle. This also presents a reaction force along the axis of the gear. This is where the whole theory behind the gear stacks pulling apart and why people think the cuff was the answer.



Modified by Blown90hatcH at 4:44 PM 7/23/2007

 

with a 4.05 final, i would figure that a itr trans would work well. or even a b16a g-ratio.

 

I think if helical cut gears were that much stronger or better X-Trac or any of the others could afford to make them. At 35k a pop for a standard 6 spd sportscar trans axle I don;t think they're skimping on anything.

How is the direction of force changed in a better manner?? With a helical cut gear it seems too me it would be loading more of the side of the gear area vs. straight onto it, I can see what you mean about having more then one tooth in contact at a time though?

I'm sure frinctional losses are a concern as well. I read an article about the audi r10 sports car box and dealing with the increased amount of torque produced by the diesel and I didn;t see one mention of helical cut gears or even trying them

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The material itself may not be stronger, but the contact patch/direction of force is where the increased resistance to failure is to be found in the helical gear. Depending on the Helix angle, you can have two to three teeth in contact at once.

Straight cut gears are cheaper to make. Some of this costs I think is soaked up in being able to machine the gears out of certain materials and the ability to do so for helical gears may just cost too much.

Also, efficiency (output power/input power) of the two type of gears, I think the gears are straight cut to get the most efficiency out of them. The helical gears are less efficient due to the sliding friction along the helix angle. This also presents a reaction force along the axis of the gear. This is where the whole theory behind the gear stacks pulling apart and why people think the cuff was the answer.

Modified by Blown90hatcH at 4:44 PM 7/23/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

in relation to the final drive, are there going to be 2 options on diffs? i know with the other set, you need a b16 diff. i am good there. but if you need a gsr diff then i am out loot. not that i have it any way, but just asking for those of us that have already spent money on our lsd/spools.