I got a 99 B18b and i want to know if i can use cams without broke my valve train? if yes, can you tell me some kind of cams for stock valve train?

Thanks , SansNom

 

bump

 

Crower 62402s should be ok. The Brian Crower Stage 1s might be the same equivalent of that. Is it worth it? I couldn't tell you, but it might not be. Is there a reason you want to stick with stock valvetrain? Aftermarket stuff is only like $150-160 for the set I believe (retainers and springs), and that'd allow you to use a more aggressive cam. The 62403s did make a noticeable difference with tuning.


Modified by Stinkycheezmonky at 6:06 AM 8/7/2007

 

got a guy on superhonda.com, making roughly 173WHP stock block LS all motor with the crower cams/ bolt ons and a tune...Brian crower is coming up alot...

 

Link? Also wondering what dyno. That's a pretty high number for a stock block, just for reference.

Edit: Also, I don't know about pricing or customer service, but for the non-VTEC stuff Brian Crower pretty much = Crower.

 

I would like to keep my stock valve train because i don't have alot of money..

 

i ran brian crower st2 cams on my 130k ls with no problem. the cams only make power to 7500 and stock vavletrain can handle that. just dont rev to 8k and youll be fine.

 

im gonna look into the crowers for myself

 

172 wheel hp with with stock bottom end? I doubt it. Get some crower 404's
and spend alittle money for springs and retainers. My son dynoed at 164 whp
& 130 lbs torque with a full motor build (LS). Good luck!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kartman5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">172 wheel hp with with stock bottom end? I doubt it. Get some crower 404's
and spend alittle money for springs and retainers. My son dynoed at 164 whp
& 130 lbs torque with a full motor build (LS). Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>
those r non-vtec cams correct?

 

I put down 1 less whp and 1 less lb/ft with 403s, and I bet I have a more useable powerband than him. Keep in mind the 404s need to be revved higher to make that power, and will lose some bottom-end. What kind of dyno was that on?

and 91redteg, yes, those are non-VTEC cams for higher-rpm stuff. The only ones I know of that are more aggressive are the 405s, but they actually require modification of the head and such, not really for a street car.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kartman5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">172 wheel hp with with stock bottom end? I doubt it. Get some crower 404's
and spend alittle money for springs and retainers. My son dynoed at 164 whp
& 130 lbs torque with a full motor build (LS). Good luck!</TD></TR></TABLE>
dont doubt what u dont know.
http://www.superhonda.com/foru...17988
Kid could probably break 180~190whp with some more tuning and a better manifold.

 

Given his modifications, I think it's pretty safe to say that whatever dyno was used is reading high. There's nothing exceptional about that motor or setup, especially since at that time it was pretty much untuned. Of all the B18Bs I've seen dyno'd, this is the highest by a huge margin. That would just logically make it some kind of exception, rather than a normal possibility or rule. Maybe someone snuck some 13:1 pistons in that block or something?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Given his modifications, I think it's pretty safe to say that whatever dyno was used is reading high. There's nothing exceptional about that motor or setup, especially since at that time it was pretty much untuned. Of all the B18Bs I've seen dyno'd, this is the highest by a huge margin. That would just logically make it some kind of exception, rather than a normal possibility or rule. Maybe someone snuck some 13:1 pistons in that block or something? </TD></TR></TABLE>
i dont think u can read..
you do realize its a MUSTANG dyno..which tends to read alot lower then dynojets or dynodymatics..which a rough guess would 12~17% lower...then a dynojet..and no, because i made a basemap for him. Read about his build dude, search his name its a stock block lmfao and whats funny about it, is its tune, its all in the tune..that and those Brian crower cams are coming up quick. That dyno was not on my base, but the phearable.net tune he got.. which was actually running a tad lean, even on his second tune, he manged out a flat torque curve..best part is, 13:1 CR on a ls? who in the **** would run that, be serious..this isn't a vtec motor..and he drives it every day..
It gives hope to ls motors.

 

If anyone is having trouble reading, it's you my friend. I know it's a Mustang dyno. Whether they tend to read lower or not, I think THIS one reads high, for the reasons I said. I know very well it's possible to futz with the settings on ANY dyno, so it's entirely possible. If what you're saying is that because it's a Mustang dyno, and thus reading low, and he's ACTUALLY putting down ~195whp, well, that's just a load of ****, and if you know anything, you'll have to agree. That setup is NOT anything. 2.07" exhaust? DC header? There are guys with built bottom-ends and 11.0:1 CR that aren't putting numbers down anywhere near that. It just plain doesn't make ANY sense.

Second, "those Brian Crower cams are coming up quick" means nothing to me. The ones he's using are almost identical to the Crower 62403s, which while nice, are not God's gift to non-VTEC. I KNOW that they're almost identical because I've checked them out myself. I also know the dyno shown was on the Phearable tune, which was a rough guess at best (as seen by him running lean).

The 13:1 comment was sarcasm, hence the " "

 

Hey, I'm the guy that's making those numbers.

The dyno isn't reading high, but I would definately dyno lower at other places in the USA. The elevation where I am in central Canada is pretty much the number one place to make the biggest power.

I mean, I totally walked two RSX Type S's, and two ITRs. And my buddy with 240whp (laggy T3/T4) D16Y8 needs to get to 3rd gear to catch up to me. Yea, I know it may not mean much, but there's no way a Teg like mine (only mods are bolt ons and the cams, no susp, no lsd, nothin) with less than 165whp is ever walking an ITR, unless the guy mis-shifts.

My latest dyno feels more like 200+ bhp since my torque curve is normal as compared to the 8-9 dips it had before never coming over the whp curve. And now I'm making -3whp and -2wtq at the same RPM as my original FPR tune. I raised the limit 500 RPM more, so I bet I make the same power.

Check Brian Crower's site. Duration on BC Non-vtec Stage 2s are rated much higher than Crower 62403 stage 2s Non-vtec. But these cams are maxed out. We couldn't get anymore power w/out a bump in compression. (+2º Intake Cam, dizzy backed off a bit).


Modified by CapnToll at 1:53 PM 8/10/2007

 

When I last looked at those cam specs, there was maybe 1* difference in any of the values. Have you taken it to a drag strip for times? And I really would be interested in seeing a comparison dyno with some other car. If those cams do make that big of a difference, I'll look into getting some for myself, but it's hard to believe just one example with no legit comparison, y'know?

 

For comparison, I just have the butt dyno. It 'feels' faster than other 14 second cars I've been in. Hopin to get it to the strip next weekend, but I've never been, so if I get into the grooves, I'll run 2 seconds slower than on the street anyways.

Crower 62403 Advertised Duration: 264 / 264 (@ .050 203 / 203)
Brian Crower Stage 2 Advertised Duration: 300°/300° (@ .050 222°/220°)

 

Hmm....those are definitely different than what I had looked at before.

Edit: Just so all these specs are available in one place:

Crower 62403s- Gross Lift w/1.75 422/411

Crower 62404s- Advertised duration 276/272 ; @ 0.050" 226/224 ;
Gross Lift w/1.75 445/434

Crower 62405s- Advertised duration 322/319 ; @ 0.050" 241/238
Gross Lift w/1.75 478/469

And lift for Brian Crower BC0022 0.423"/0.413"

I'm assuming the standards/whatever are the same for measuring lift between the two companies, which means that although the BC's have more duration than even the 404s, they have less lift? And lift is nearly the same between the BC022s and the 62403s.


Modified by Stinkycheezmonky at 3:59 PM 8/12/2007

 

Well, I'm pretty sure the Brian Crower's are more aggressive, but I doubt they're as aggressive as they say. Because the Crower 404s are only rated at 276/272, and those HAVE to be more aggressive than my cams that at idle sound like stock cams.

 

this thread kinda got outa hand huh....

bottom line ive prolly looked at every b18b non vtec dyno posted on this site and that one is way higher than any other dyno ive seen that wasnt a dynapack.

for reference you are making 10 more horsepower than my old stock block b20z that had crower 404's wich has more compression and larger bore better exhaust/header better intake mani and all you can say is its a good tune, i dont buy it.... the thing is your dyno is only worth comparing to other people that dynoed in similar weather on the same dyno.

that being said anything smaller than 404's using a stock redline will work with stock springs but i wouldnt recommend it. if you plan on raising the redline or running larger cams then get some good valvetrain.

 

Any chance you could measure them to give us a solid number?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redlsvtec4door &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i ran brian crower st2 cams on my 130k ls with no problem. the cams only make power to 7500 and stock vavletrain can handle that. just dont rev to 8k and youll be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

im looking into getting some cams too. So your saying that you ran the crower stage2 cams on your stock valvetrain with no problem?

 

ok let me put it this way, your not going to make alot of power with any cam that allows you to retain stock valvesprings. new valvesprings really arent that expensive. people seem to have no problem spending 150 bux on a larger TB or 200 on a intake that combined might make like 5-10 hp. the difference in power from cams that you could run with better valvesprings and cams that will run on stock valvesprings is between 10-30hp depending on other mods (basically how well the rest of the head can breath).